ATI & Mastercam Explained

[M. Anderson]

Lilgit, welcome to the forum!

 

Good, first response!

 

But that second - – watch out…..

 

You have been here a long time for this to be your first posts?

 

Later,

 

Mark

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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...by the way..is there a difference between hacking a video card into a better version and hacking mastercam level 1 into level 3?

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There IS a difference. Since the components on the video card cannot be physically changed one card cannot truly be changed into another one. Soft MOD is more like a tune up rather than getting a new engine. Just like there's no substitute for cubic inches in an engine, in graphics there no substitute for a high end GPU.

 

JM2C

[DC Gorn]

I guess since most of you do not have ATI's you did not read the whole artical. Can't say I blame you thats alot of info. While I know little of the geforce cards the ATI 9700Pro and the FireGL X1 are the same card. Look at the bottom of the second page. 12 bench tests run all well within 1% of each other. Sometimes the softmod 9700pro wins some times the Real Firegl. I did notice this was not true for the Geforce. There was some cases where the soft modded card fell behind. Just go look. page 2 green graphics at the bottom.

 

http://www.nvworld.ru/docs/sfgl_e.html

[lilgit]

so...like dc Gorn says ( a hacker...)...you all are a bunch of hackers and pirates....even if the hardware isnt the same, u are hacking and downloading info on how to beat what ati has sold you into something better....buy a cheap gaming card and crack it into a pro cad card wohhooo

[lilgit]

ati and nvidea dont remake their gpu for ever card they have to offer

software companies dont rewrite their software for every level of their product they put out.

is it okay for me to "tune up" the mastercam engine from the educational version into a full working version?

i am not rewriting the code , only changing a few things. i promise i wont change the "cubic inches"...i will only soft mod it to my needs.

you are a mastercam dealer...wouldnt u be pissed if you were a pro graphics card dealer and people were offering instructions on this forum on how to turn a 100 dollar gaming card into a product you paid hundreds of dollars for wholesale and are trying to sell?

[kwolf]

Facts:

You can buy mastercam license , but you can't sell it to anyone.

You can buy nVidia Gfx card , and you can sell it to anyone.

You can't change any Mastercam code.

But I think you can change a resistor on your own graphics card. By changing a resistor on GeForce card you make windows recognize it as Quadro too (hard mod to Quadro).

[kwolf]

I'm not an expert in law or software copyright. But I'm sure what Alexey aka Unwinder, RivaTuner creator, has done is legal. Otherwise they sued him after more than 2 years of soft modding. Don't you think so? There are several other sites regarding soft modding GF and Radeon and none of them sued. So what nVidia did against soft modding?

nVidia tried to improve its encryption engine so each time unwinder should change his anti-protection. Following is his word about SQ:

quote:

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... Second, DON'T wait for my postings abvout it on nvworld.ru, new versions of SoftQuadro etc. SQ project was discontinued after 42.70 and I'm not goint to spend time on analysing 5x.xx driver protection systems for FX family. These GPUs seemsto week to investigate time in them and currently I use R9800PRO as my primary development platform.

Third, I strictly DON'T recommend to buy display adapter for modding only.

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[Salahuddin]

I think making the cards work faster is not a hacking, the reson is: I own this card , I can change it to what ever I want, make it faster or slower, its my choice.

 

lilgit,

can you say that adding a fan for the pc or the vidio card to make it cooler is a hack?.

I don't think so.

[Bullines]

I don't think soft-modding is wrong. I just think for most users, it's not a wise idea. Most users don't realize the damage that can be done to the card, and potentially other components in their computers. A large portion of the soft-mod apps for nVIDIA's cards mostly work off of the CoolBits tweak anyway, which anyone can do, if they can handle creating one Registry value and then changing some display properites. I use CoolBits all of the time to disable the vertical synchronization in DirectDraw/Direct3D (why that is hidden but OpenGL's isn't, I;ll never know) and that doesn't cause my card's GPU and memory run faster than they were meant to.

[Fig sign]

Hacking is not illegal until you make something illegal .

Look for example at Computer emmulation .

Atary emmulation .Amiga emmulation ,Macintosh OS emmulation on PC .

Does it legal?

All this comps are based on the same Motorolla chip ,principally different .

Is Gemulator Legal ,when you put in your PC pci card with a chip and so ?

Is Vmac emmulating the old Macintosh pLUS LEGAL ?

aPPLE TRIED TO SUE EVERY EMMULATION PROJECT THAT EVER EXISTED ,SOMETIMES WITH A SUCCESS ,but mostly not ,because you can be an owner of the old Mac and legally use emmulator instead of it .

Vmac is a free project from the start ,and do you know ,that you can have color support for macintosh Plus ?

As I told you about Gestalt fooling ,you can dounload any Macintosh OS till 7.55 free (I am not sure about 8) and install it on your PC ,yhat officially not supporting it simply fooling Gestalt ID number .

This is very basic hack ,is it unlegal ?

A nice thing to run Vmac using Macintosh OS8 emmulating Macintosh Plus in color !

Is it unlegal ?

In their license Vmac group announce that you have a legal right to use it if you have the old

Macintosh and gaves instruments to make Ram copy .

The same for Fusion and Basilisk .

It is really cool thing ,but will it make probs.for Apple ?

I think it can only attract people to their nice comps ,every emmulator is a limitied thing .

The way Executor choose was to reverse engineer Mac OS ,producing thingy ,that can ran maciontosh applications .

They has the Finder of their own and so on .

Legal 100 % and funny ,but limitied !

Basilisk is included in most Linnux distributions ,and Apple never sued Mandrake for doing this !

I want to emphasize -

Hacking for fun never hurts nobody ,hacking for money will put you in jail .

You choose ....

 

[ 03-06-2004, 10:51 AM: Message edited by: Iskander teh Owl ]

[lilgit]

you are all going to jail

so if it is okay to do...does anyone know a good resource site to improve my radeon 9600??

[DC Gorn]

Fact is I wish there was something we could do to ATI. OpenGL is a windows approved engine yet ATI can put known errors in its drivers so it has OpenGL error. They have to be aware of the errors cause the FireGL drivers fix everything. Yet no where on the box does it state 9700 Pro NOT fully windows compatible. Or even NOT OpenGL compatible. Something that says "We mangled these drivers so you have to buy a FireGL". If it was just speed thing I could understand but all those errors. When they put Windows XP compliant you would think that ment all aspects of Windows.

 

I used to play a Game called Tribes 2. It is an OpenGL game. What a nightmare to keep working. Every time there is a ATI drivers update everyone goes and gets it just to find out its no better. They are all hoping the next drivers will fix all the problems. None of them can understand how a card that runs so great in brand new games runs so bad in a 3 year old one.

 

Lilgit, Read up the post Kwolf linked gives info and the other link gives the step by step.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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...)...you all are a bunch of hackers and pirates....

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Ok....

 

Whatever you say. BTW, why don't you tell us who you are while you're at it. It's real convenient to hide behind handle like that and say what you do but it takes a "man" to say something controversial and 'fess up to who you are.

 

OUT!

[Jayson Kramer]

I would say it is Fred mitchell from what I can tell.

[lilgit]

what...give my real name and address so you crazy american internet weirdos can mail me a bomb?? :cucko:

i was just jokin really...

[DC Gorn]

Jay Kramer

That quote was from lilgit NOT me. I am Fred Mitchell

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

... uh, nooo. Just your name will suffice. Addresses not necessary. I just want you to stop acting like a puss and man up. If you're going to talk trash, we want to know who we're dealing with. I think you have brothers, let's see, Multax and Fire Dragon most likely. Seems liek you guys are cut from the same cloth.

[cadcam]

Sorry Fred you are right that was not your quote...

Well if I had not said it welcome to the board.

[pimij]

My take on this is like anything you buy - its yours if you paid for it and if you want to change it or modify it -- its up to you - you take the responsibility if what you do screws up. Many people out there buy cars and replace parts with custom parts - you don't see GM or FORD running around calling them a bunch of hackers and pirates??

Also if you read the article about the ATI card - wouldn't you feel ripped off if you bought a workstation card only to find out its no different than a low-end gaming card.

Do you buy Tylenol or Acetaminophen - they are functionaly the same but one is branded the other is generic. You can go on for ever like this - but ultimately the choice is yours - and you shhouldn't be critisized for it.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Great point Jim. I didn't think about cars and modifications.

 

quote:

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...you take the responsibility if what you do screws up...

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Definitely.

 

After looking at the big picture (possible performance gains vs. possible instability or possible trashing the card I decided to leave the card as is. It is FAR above the performance of the card it replaced (Matrox Millenium G450 -32MB), it's stable, supports the resolution I like to run (1600 x 1400) on my 19" Trinitron, and is a decent mid-range card. I'm anxious to see how X Beta performs on it, and before you ask, ... Beta is NOT out yet.

[Bullines]

quote:

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Also if you read the article about the ATI card - wouldn't you feel ripped off if you bought a workstation card only to find out its no different than a low-end gaming card.

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Trust me, they are different. I can crank up the frequency of my GeForce's GPU and memory to behave like its equivalent Quadro (which is all those soft-mod apps really do)...until my card smokes itself. Got a GeForce? Go to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINESOFTWARENVIDIA CorporationGlobalNVTweak, add a DWORD called "CoolBits", set it to a decimal value of 3 and then look at your advanced display properties. Crank up the frequencies on the "Clock Frequencies" to values those won't cause blue screens. Then sit back and enjoy Quadro-like speeds until your card blows up a few months later. Charcoal 2 or 3 cards and its like you bought a Quadro

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

... will more cooling help Bullines?

[Bullines]

More cooling always helps

 

You still likely won't be able to max out the frequencies, but more cooling could help if the frequencies are moderately increased.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Hmmmmm.

[kwolf]

Bullines I don't think Soft Quadro is like adding some keys to registry. It patches nVidia OpenGL driver and makes windows recognize it as a quadro. Many people reported their performance before and after SPECViewPerf which has UGS/PROE/3DMAX/Lightwave/... as it's benchmark and the increase in performance is not because of over clocking GPU or its RAM.

For example, with Soft Quadro you can turn on "Enable back buffer" which was only present in detonator before v5.32, I don't know why but nVidia decided to hide it and keep it only for Quadro cards. As a proof you can see SolidWorks website stating that GF2 with driver 4.0.1381.532 (with enable back buffer on) can pass all tests under SolidWorks, no other driver could pass I might add, while GF FX 5900 with detonator 44.03 passes with limitations (Limited number of accelerated windows). This limitation is due to back buffer issue.

If you use rivatuner you can have this option in your OpenGL panel.

I'm curious to know if with some registry keys I can have it on a GF card?

 

Thanks