This is why I was thinking of integrating the receiver directly into the table. I just don't know if it can be done.

Could you integrate a zero point system into the table on the mx520? So you don't loose travel range.

Yeah I'm learning that the hard way, each and every day.

80%. Just trying to determine whether that spindle still has enough a$$ for some lower rpm hogging if required on some materials that you have to run relatively low rpms. Ti 6-4 for one.

Will the 20k spindle on the mx520 still run a 2.5 inch face mill through say 4140 at a depth of .200? The torque and power curves look like it would. I just wonder about its ability to handle that kind of load consistently.

I couldn't agree more with having a solid verification package and using it for every setup! When you say your foundation is crap does that mean 4-6 inches of concrete with little rebar?

120 tools seems to be the tipping point for most people, me included. The 133 tools that come on a Makino HMC would be a very nice attribute to have for our needs. I wouldn't mind so much swapping tools in and out of the machine if i could do it quickly through a loading door. On my current machines I'm stuck loading at the spindle and it is a HUGE time waster. MDI, T1 M6, MPG mode, load tool, MDI, T2 M6, wait for it to index at every freakin tool position, MPG mode, load tool...

Wow that's a lot quicker than i had anticipated. What specifically do you have from Vericut? Verification, machine simulation, optipath? I'm trying to see what the bare bones necessity would be for keeping a machine safe. What foundation is under your A51nx?

How easy of an integration has Vericut been for you? Were the machine models supplied by Makino? What kind of time do you spend verifying a moderately complex part? Say something done in two setups on the HMC tombstone with all six sides machined. One face and two sides on Op. 10 and the other face and other two sides on Op, a shoe box with milling on all sides.

I've read quite a bit about your setup and how you run your shop- impressive to say the least. I visited Makino here in Mason, Ohio (just up the street) a few weeks ago. I loved the machines and loved the experience I had talking with them about my projects. I saw a stripped down a61nx that a crane had fallen on and it was IMPRESSIVE. There's no doubt that the machines are capable. I am a small fry to them (3 man shop) and worry about service if something were to happen to the machine. Though i guess you could say the same with any builder. I've heard of some smaller shops having trouble getting service, likely through their distributor though. In a sense i feel it may be a waste getting a horizontal with so much capacity with just 60 tools. For the high mix and low volume of parts we run i don't think i could fully utilize the machine's capabilities with such a limited number of tools. Going to a larger tool magazine and a fifth axis puts me well over my budget. Some days I feel like saying f--- it and diving head first into what I know is the right machine for my future. (HMC with a roller bearing 5th on one table and 240 tools) I'm relatively new in business, 2.5 years, and am on the fence about sticking my neck out any further. As many have said in other post it's the risk factor for business owners.

What do you mean by system intensive exactly?

Mikron offers a 60 tool version of the machine along with a 7 pallet changer. One down side is the pallets reduce your work envelope quite a bit because of their height. Another is that 60 tools for having 7 pallets in our particular job shop environment isn't nearly enough. Smaller tool magazines seem to be hard to come by in this price range. I will also be doing a lot of work with the trunnion kicked over at 90 degrees and it seems the spindle nose is pretty stubbed up and may cause clearance issues. The Matsuura seems a lot more friendly at A -90 though still a little limited in Y axis travel. Have you done any tracking of or had any issues with thermal growth?

Any thoughts out there on the Mikron HEM 500u?

Interesting. Having support for stepping into the 5 axis arena is a large part of the purchase in my book. Some of my success or lack there of hinges on this. I haven't had a chance to visit St. Paul but would like to if I go down the road with Matsuura. They're an hour behind but close enough. Thanks for answering those couple questons. How well if at all does Camplete interface with Mastercam? Can you transfer tooling and workholding setup info pretty seamlessly? A lot of what we do is very low volume (1 to 10 parts) so spending as little time as possible to get a quality verification would be nice.

The more I look it seems this machine truly has a niche in the market right now. My dealer is new to Matsuura as of last year and I'm not confident in their ability to support me as of yet. Can I set the machine up to handle tools as listed above? Can I turn off and on different block skips in the control?

300k. That's machine only. No verification software, holders or workholding.

What options are out there for entry level 5 axis machines? Some search criteria - 17 inch swing diameter - 40 tool min - tool loading outside the machining area - rotary axis accuracy- better than +/- 10 arc seconds- maybe scales - thermal compensation - Preferable full 5 but not a must - Multi block skip - Has table to tell machine that tool number 123 is in pot number 30. This way I can preset tools from my master tool library and load them directly into the machine without rearranging tool numbers. I believe the makino pro 5 handles tools like this. Some initial thoughts - Matsuura mx-520 - Hmc w/ 5th on pallet

Being a small shop as you and me both are, my vote would be to add another spindle. IF the horizontal you have is down for any length of time you're screwed. I just went through this with one of my verticals. It isn't fun. I guess I would look at it like this. There are two machines, the FMS and the horizontal or two horizontals. One scenario has two machines, the FMS and one horizontal, totally dependent upon each other to function. If one is down so is the other. The other scenario also has two machines, two horizontals, that are completely independent of each other. If one is down the other is likely up and functioning. The next horizontal would have a large enough tool magazine for ALL tools needed to run certain repeat jobs or families of parts plus some. Maybe consider the next size up machine with a larger Y axis travel to give you more usable work envelope to increase total cycle time per pallet. I would also look to have a few spare pallets. Load these pallets with extra parts so as soon as you walk in in the morning hoist the already loaded pallet onto the machine and away you go. Or use them for different fixtures so you're not in constant setup and tear down mode. Or put your rotary table on one so there's no fuss setting it up. The robotic load idea is a good one. If the robot takes a crap move it out of the way and hand load small pallets on the machine manually. That would be hard to do with a FMS.

Look at the overall height of a MMC if that's what you are planning for in the future. Make sure you have enough height at the eaves UNDER the beams internally. Seems like these things are pretty freakin tall. Add a overhead crane on top of that and you're up there in height for sure. Look at a product like bus duct for machine configuration flexibilty with the electric. I know it's pricey so a good alternative is to run strut channel vertical along your walls for ease of changing out conduit. Using a product like smart pipe from Kaeser for your compressed air lines will add flexibility also.

Were these US Davis, CA built machines?

Take a look at Fahrion distributed by Horn USA. I have been extremely happy with the 40 or so holders I bought a while back. Very nice quality and reasonably priced!

Take a look a Helical Solutions. They make a HXVR end mill for this reason. http://www.1helical.com/

Sweet. But how in the hell do you ever see what you're machining?!

Bob, Have you considered teaching an after hours class for those high school students? The kids with the most interest and desire to learn will show up. They're going to be the easiest to teach and keeps everyone including you interested in what you're doing. You may be able to hand pick the best ones to be part of your company in the future.

35k. Was with the Bronze tooling software to store tool assembly data. It's a 600mm Z travel machine. More machine and software then I'll likely need for a while but something I can grow into certainly. I've been trying to make all my core machine choices that way. I'm wondering if I can interface the Zoller software with the new MCX7 tool database when I go to X7. Hmmm...