Before I get started on this, let me put out a disclaimer so I don't get torched immediately: We purchased Mastercam a couple of years back [V8, Lathe, Mill 1 & Solids I think] with the intention of owning multiple seats, doing the full training circuit, custom posts, etc. Right after that we got very busy and had "no time" for new software and the like. Just after that our business took a header and we now have "no $" for these things. That being said, I need to ask a [probably] silly question: How are the tool #s handled in the "custom" tool libraries? From all we can figure out, I will need to save 12 copies of the exact same tool [one for each possible turret station] in the "master" library so that if I use 2 of the same tool in the same job in different turret stations it will work. Can this be true? If so, I'll need about 36 copies of every tool [3 insert radii x 12 stations] and that doesn't seem logical to me; hence the question on this forum. Be gentle, I'm already having a lousy week C

...well, in a few more months, I may be needing help with that whole avatar thing... ...especially with posts like this one... [ 09-11-2002, 04:55 PM: Message edited by: chris m ]

quote: ...if I'm going to spend time away from them (even if it's in the office in our house) it's going to be for money. Sorry, I hope you can understand. What are you? Some kind of capitalist? [please forgive me if I butchered the spelling on that] Puhhhhhhhlease! You guys give up enough knowledge for free; you've got nothing to apologize for

Why carbide? For a job like that, I would think your local tool grinder would be able to take some cobalt ball mills and relieve the shank for you no sweat; wouldn't they? C

quote: All I want is something that is easy to use, works perfectly every time for every machining situation I encounter and I have complete control over every machining aspect. Is that too much to ask????? Too much to ask? NO! Too much to expect? YES! I just want something that I can can stick the print in one side and get a part out the other... No, I guess I don't; then why would they need me!?!?!?

It really makes you appreciate the full sheetmetal enclosures on newer milling machines! Those 6" high "guards" on the older Matsuuras are a joke

heeler; I need to pick your brain! How does the control handle comp with the [comp-in-computer] "centerline" programming? I have been around these machines for awhile and never seen them programmed with a CAM system so this is new to me; do they take "wear" or "reverse wear" like real CNCs do? If I undersatnd how they work with CAM data, maybe I'll stop standing in front of the machine stabbing softkeys! C

quote: Oh yeah... and that other time I forgot to tighten the vise (BUT I thought YOU did it....)OUCH!! Its amazing how far an 1-1/2" inserted endmill will throw a piece of stock; isn't it..?

I'm not really sure that I understand the gist of your question; but I'll give it a shot: 1) with a machine like a ProtoTRAK, I would use comp in control only (comp in computer OFF) because when you program at the machine it wants the real cutter diameter, not a wear amount, and I'm not sure how sophisticated the control is. 2) I'm not sure what you're programming, but those machines are pretty easy to program conversationally while standing in front of them; do you really need to do it with MasterCAM? 3) If you're curious about post output; I'd program milling of a simple coutour at the machine, save the data to a floppy, and print it out. Then I'd program the same EXACT contour with MC and post it, compare them, and see what I got. 4) Southwestern Industries has off-line software for their TRAK AGE controls (like the one on my DPMs) that mimics the look and feel of the machine on a [low-end] PC. If you are doing a lot of off-line ProtoTRAK programming, you may want to see if something similar is available for your machines. This would prevent you from using features and cycles that are available in MC, but not in the machine. HTH C [ 09-10-2002, 07:49 AM: Message edited by: chris m ]

Rekd I can certainly see where you're coming from, but always remember that the way you say it is VERY important; every guy you tell "STFU and push the button" is a guy just dreaming about the day you have tool #9 programmed to pickup the height for tool #8 because you had to do a quick edit on the program. That way he can slam the collet chuck right into your $3000 fixture [at 100% rapid, just like you told him} and smile at you when he says "you always tell me to just push the f-ing button..." Not that I've seen that... I usually try to get the guys on board by trying the team approach [which will NEVER work for some guys} or I get the methods guy to adjust the allowed time down to what I know it should be; which generally gets the production manager to go out and find why the guy isn't making his time. I know this doesn't help you mold guys though... C

Jim It sounds like you might be a good test case to use the old M codes to lock out the spindle and feed overrides after a program is proven. Is this practical for you? C

Thanks a lot guys; I'll check that stuff out and see what does what. I appreciate all of the good advice! C

We also have this problem although we do not perform high-speed machining. On the few milling jobs that we have had that require serious stock removal either me or our other programmer here had to set it up and run off the first couple of pieces just so we wouldn't end up with the overrides down at 50% like James said. Typically once you show the guys [or girls] that the cutters aren't going to blow up, they start to listen to the machine and say; "damn, that sounds GOOD!" Or maybe that's just me.. Some caution is good, but too much can be a pain in the xxxx. James, you are sure correct about taking control away from the operator, I've never had the guts to program feedrate override ignore / spindle override ignore or similar functions: VERY scary

quote: Whereas if you're off the contour the radius/diameter when it gets to the contour it'll be on track. I think we're actually talking the same thing here; obviously the center of the endmill [not the OD] must be at least the cutter radius away from the part or you will have already plowed into your part before the machine picks the comp up. Is that what you're talking about? C

Mr Webmaster; if this is a subject out of line with the rules [as I see a big CIMCO link at the bottom of the page}, please accept my apologies and feel free to kill it Lady and Gentlemen: I am currently looking for code editors and DNC products to try (a combination would be good, or two products from the same house) as our current editing is done through either an OLD DOS-based editor or various non-CNC-specific text editors and our DNC is using a transfer program that one of my guys wrote himself and has no real handshake comm with the machines. These things work but they are far from optimum. We have machines with everything from a Yasnac 2000G with the bouncing ball [no CRT] to a Fanuc 18 to a Mazak 640MT to an Okuma E100L so the DNC must be somewhat flexible. I am currently checking out the download version of CIMCO Edit 4.22 which is OK, but I'm interested to see what everyone else is running. Thanks C

Did you get the info you wanted? Did you make the part? Enquiring minds want to know

quote: Just getting different feedback from forum users with different controls Jack I wasn't trying to be a wiseass; just wondering if you were trying to point out what I tried [perhaps unsuccessfully] to say; that G00/G01/G02/G03 will cancel fixed cycles like G80 does. As a matter of fact, In my new Okuma 3016 with the OSP U10M control G80 stops the spindle!! Pretty scary to watch the spindle stop at the end of the hole pattern and the machine rapid to the next bolt circle without the drill turning! I don't understand why they did that but we use G00 at the end of the fixed cycles now to keep the damned spindle from stop-start-stop-start-stop-start every ten freaking seconds

quote: Redundant M codes Jack, most controls will barf on this one I've been wondering for quite a while; why can I put about 1000 M codes on the same line in my lathe controls, but mill controls from the same manufacturer will only take one? Of course, I also wonder why "Restart" on Okuma lathes is "RE" and on mills its "RS"...

Thanks for the info on the Bostomatics; I didn't know that. I had also forgotten about the Fadal. I keep seeing this comment... quote: If you're going to be using comp at the control strictly, then you'll want to make sure that you move at least the Radius/Diameter (depending on weather your machine uses radius or diameter in the offsets ... so I need to ask a question: Why would I want to cut air for 3/4" before I got to my entry line with an 1-1/2" endmill? That seems like it would seriously limit your mill size for interp of bores. I regularly interpolate 2" bores with 1-1/2" endmills and the like with no problems; am I missing something? C [ 09-05-2002, 05:20 PM: Message edited by: chris m ]

quote: Also try substituting N040 G80 G49 Z2.0 M09 With N040 G00 G49 Z2.0 M09 Jack, In many controls G00, G01, G02, and G03 will also cancel a fixed cycle (like G80 does); is that what you're trying to get at? C

I'm glad you got it figured out; I'm not sure I could've done it!! I'll definitely remember this one! C

You've got a 4020 in your garage?!!?!? COOL!!! I wish I had that kind of space at my house; the only thing I have in the garage that I could make any $ with is my lawnmower. Did you get it to work? C

Gary quote: Apparently FADAL didn't think a G95 was necessary! That would be because Fadals are best used as boat anchors or elevator counterweights It may also be a software option that you didn't buy [it is on a couple of my older machines] I don't know if Jack meant a zero in the O word (which would cause a DNC error) or an O in the G80 block (which I think would cause an illegal G code error) but I don't think either thing would cause your problem; did you try what we talked about? C

While I was typing Peter beat me to the punch; but I'll leave my post out here to show what a cool, insightful guy I am. I do not agree that the move must be the length of tool radius minimum [Mastercam thinks so but the machine tools generally don't] but that shouldn't affect your problem anyway. C ------------------------------------------------- If I understand this correctly, I think I see a problem. Most CNC controls [at least every one that I've worked with] will not allow you to activate cutter compensation in a radius (G02 or G03) move, you must call your G41/G42 in a linear move, preferably a linear FEED move to make sure the machine does what you want. HTH C [ 09-05-2002, 07:17 AM: Message edited by: chris m ]

quote: N020 G43 H01 X.32 Y-.2 Z2.0 S6000 M03 M08 N025 G99 G81 X.32 Y-.2 Z-.03 R.1 F.001 quote: N020 G43 H01 X.32 Y-.2 Z2.0 S6000 M03 M08 N025 G98 G81 X.32 Y-.2 Z-.03 R.1 F6.0 Jack, I hate to break balls [well, actually, no I don't; but in this case I do] but the first program is going to traverse between holes at .100" and the second is going to traverse at 2.000" so they won't be quite quote: ...the same result on your machine tool or mine... or did I misunderstand what you meant? Also... quote: The most common error in programming is the “0” instead of “O” while this certainly happens, wouldn't you normally get an "illegal G code" error instead of the machine just ignoring the block? [ 09-05-2002, 07:07 AM: Message edited by: chris m ]