Agreed. Using Novamet 910 over here. Didn't stain for the first month or two (but foamed like crazy). Stains 6061 and 7075 reallllly bad. Don't even have to let it soak. Start a 2 hour surfacing cycle and the first half of the part will be all jacked up by the time the program ends.

Thank you for the input GRacjan. Sounds exactly like my problem. Busted out the Mitutoyo height gauge, some 1-2-3's and made myself a pre-setter for the time being.

Thanks for the replies guys. I think I might go the route that Bob suggested, but will have to wait a bit. A bit outside of the budget at the moment and I need some other items. I think the presetter makes more sense long term and especially as we add more machines to the shop. I'll keep pushing the DMG Mori guys, but if we can't turn up anything else I guess I'm back to just comping tools manually until I can push a presetter through purchasing. Thanks again everyone.

Two months ago we received a DMU 60 eVo machine. It is brand new, with a Siemens 840D and all the other bells and whistles. Been a good machine so far with the exception of one thing. Our Blum Tool Measurement Laser has been problematic. It is built onto a mount on the machine that rotates it up and down. I am seeing measurement variances by up to .07mm (.0027") on length, and similar amounts on radius/diameter measurements. The measurements have been taken from a cold start, post spindle warm-up, and after running 2-3 parts with 8-20 minute cycle times. I was also concerned that coolant mist inside the cabinet may be interfering so I turned off TSC but honestly, there wasn't even that much mist to begin with. Anyway, that didn't change anything, same results. The Renishaw OMP-60 probe is repeating on measurements within .004 mm. This makes me hopeful that I do not have an issue with my drives/scales/axes (at least I hope). My next test is to use the OMP-60 probe and take measurements of the Blum laser itself (Z axis hit on the top, XY on the side) and record it as an offset, and take this measurement 2-3 times a day for a week and look for any variation that might correspond to the TLO shifts I am getting. Any thoughts on this? Has anyone experienced similar issues? Am I asking too much of the laser? I hope not as I've had Okuma's, and HAAS machines with Renishaw probing systems give waaaay better results than what I am currently seeing. As is, I just cut the first part, and comp the tools manually. This is a PITA as I do prototype work with pretty tight deadlines so I would prefer not having to automatically scrap out my first part due to a crappy measurement on my tools. DMG Mori support is aware of the issue but they have not found a solution other than suggesting alternative cycles (we've tried them all at this point). They have been fine to work with, but it's clear that they are overworked and stretched too thin, which is why I'm starting to investigate this myself. They are still pursuing the issue, but I am becoming impatient. Any insight or ideas would be appreciated. Thank you.

if I'm following correctly, you have a part with pockets on one side, and on the back/bottom side of those you have a 3d/curved surface? Not taking into consideration part size, and your exact geometry/fixturing method here is what I have found useful in Ti and Aluminum structural aerospace parts. Wall thicknesses ranging from .04" to .125". I typically adapt the waterline method to the surfacing of poorly supported 3d features. I rough the 3D contour side (pocketed side is finished), then do a coarse semi finish to .05 ~.08 with a ball to get rid of the roughing steps. For 3D finishing, I then hit the surface with a morph style pocket starting from center (I don't use Mastercam, so whatever your equivalent toolpath is). The idea here is that by starting from center, with .05 ~ .08 left, and working towards the outer edge of the part, the thicker floor stiffens the part. For the parts I deal with, as I near the outer edge/end of the toolpath I have thicker ribs underneath so I don't run out of material. Obviously, success or failure here is dictated by your parts geometry. With regards to the Titanium specifically, you will lose some cycle time as your ball endmill now is using a larger effective cutting diameter. Typically when I have as little as .02" for 3d finishing, I can cheat quite a bit and kick the SFM up pretty high (for Ti). With the added finishing amount, I have to slow back down a bit or else I start burning up the tip of the ball endmills. I used to fill my parts with wax or clay, but this became far to time consuming, and honestly, a pain in the xxxx. While i can't cut the surface as fast, it now runs unattended. It can be quite a finicky approach but it hasn't failed me yet on the geometries I work with. You might need to drop the tool size to reduce the cutting pressure, which further increases cycle time.

Nah, your good to go. I've reset the timer on mine 3 or 4 times, took it out once just for curiosities sake. Gosiger Tech took it out last time he was out for PM, looked just fine.

Nothing on 5x Toyodas but the last company I was with had two of the horizontals, 800mm pallet size I believe, running off a 30 pallet FMS. The 2 machines replaced 11 badly worn out Fadals. Machines both had HSK-100 Spindles, TSC, fully loaded Fanuc 31a5 controls, scales, Renishaw workpiece probes, laser measurement tool probes and Matrix style tool magazines. I was working in inspection for a brief time and inspected parts coming off of them. Pretty rare to see anything more than .001" away from nominal on loosely toleranced features, and it held lots of sub .001" tolerances with ease. Most accuracy issues were found to be from material handling/incorrect loading of parts. Very rigid, and very accurate across high temperature fluctuations. Roll up doors on each end of the machine were usually cracked halfway during Northern California summers (70F in the morning, up to 90-100F at noon). Only downside was very poor chip evacuation that led to jammed/bent/destroyed way covers that needed replacements every 6-8 months. The fact that the spindle was HSK-100 and relatively low RPM led me to believe Toyoda probably intended the machine be used for Ferrous alloy machining, and we were running into problems because all we cut was 6061 which just like to hangout on the way covers. I'm not sure if this problem was ever resolved. When I left it had not been corrected. Tech support was pretty good when we needed them. The 2 programmers assigned to the machine didn't have any trouble getting service out when we needed them. YMMV depending on your location/re-seller obviously.

Got an old CMS 5 axis that I'm slowly taking over programming for. Thanks for the document, CMS has a very similar document, but is a little vague in certain areas. Your document patches it up nicely!

I know you explicitly asked about heat shrink & hydraulic but I'll add a +1 to Rego-Fix PG. If you are curious, I believe they will let you demo a few holders and a press (manual version I think) to evaluate. That being said, we have been using Rego-Fix for almost a year and a half now. I am questionable to the comment about the collets breaking. I do aerospace prototype work and I am always switching tools out of holders for different jobs on a daily basis (I avoided Shrink for this reason). I would have more seriously looked into shrink if we were going to do pre-set and stored tooling but our part material/geometry varies so much that it's just not a financially feasible option for us at this point. For the record I have never, ever had 1) tool pull out 2) broken collets 3) any wear more than a slight dulling of the DLC finish on the collet. They see 15k and 120% load in our Okuma without a single issue. I have limited experience with heat shrink and hydraulic so I cannot comment on a direct comparison. About the only downside for me with the PG holders is the very specific amount of shank length that must be clamped. I use a lot of carbide from Destiny Tool, and RobbJack, and unless I ask each of them to grind to a specific shank length I will sometimes have a tool hanging to far out, or end up to short in the collet. This sometimes leads to having more expensive endmills if they need to start with a longer blank because the normal blank is to short.

Davids, What I meant is that we are very happy with the machine and the SuperNurbs capability. I do not have first hand experience with the Ecoline series from DMG. A few applications engineers I have spoken with from various tooling/machine distributors don't have much positive feedback on them, but of course there opinions are potentially biased. Lack of rigidity was a reoccurring topic with the people I spoke with.

About a year ago we evaluated several VMC's (Mazak, Doosan, HAAS, Makino, etc...) for low quantity prototype work. We opted for a Genos M560 with supernurbs, 15k spindle, koma 4th, and a crap load of Rego Fix PG holders. Every engineer is trying to find ways to justify why there parts should go on the Genos vs our HAAS VMC... FWIW we are producing molds on this machine that require zero benching that go straight to lay up. As is with everything, this is not the machine alone and also requires quality tooling (holders and tools) and careful, thought out programming.

Thank you everyone for the feedback. I've got some good leads now for who to talk to. I just met with a Multicam salesman but will also be talking to Onsrud and a few others. It looks like we'll be looking at a larger machine than originally planned, mostly because no one makes something for our little parts that is industrial grade. Mick, wish I had started my search earlier, I probably would have been able to go!

Anyone heard anything on Onsrud routers? I contacted the sales and info department but just at first glance they look pretty well built in comparison to some of the "lightweight" routers. Mkd, Thanks for the feedback on the thermwood, Nice to see that you've had what sounds like a positive experience. Rstewart, I will message them, Thank you.

Thanks Raider, we looked at the HAAS offerings and were a little put off by the size (travel and machine size). We will keep them in consideration if nothing better comes up. Thank you.

Hey guys, Our company is looking into purchasing a 3-Axis Router. The parts being processed are composite (Carbon Fiber, G10, G11, etc...) and we will do mostly trimming. Only one part will be made from sheet that is .1" thick G11. Currently the parts are done on a HAAS when we have time between other metallic parts, or they are hand trimmed which is even less desirable as it pulls our skilled labor away from lay up. I really just need some input on which companies are worth while to look into (or other companies to run from). I see from using the search function that Thermwood & Multicam don't appear to be held in high regard, which is what we were looking at. Here are some of the requirements for those of you that might be more familiar with specific offerings from companies: Largest part - 30" x 60" Z travel of at least 10" Needs to be true 3 axis capable (one part requires 3d contour type toolpaths) Dust collection system as a standard or optional feature (needs to keep carbon from going all over the place) Would prefer smallest machine possible (60" x 60" table preferable), we have limited shop space Tightest tolerance is +/-.0005" on .25 wide x .275" long slots, if that means slow feedrates so be it, the HAAS it would replace can only do 15ipm and hold that. Toolchanger is a must, at least 5 tools Some sort of safety feature to prevent limbs from entering the machines travel area during operation, or some automatic E-stop function if that were to happen. HSK-63F would be nice but not a requirement Hopefully the router is cheaper than the HAAS that's doing them now but we have no issues with paying for quality equipment. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.