Uphill struggle in industry

[cam01]

As a graduate Industrial Designer i was excited when last summer i was offered a position in the toolroom of a local thermoforming company doing work for them on Mastercam. An opportunity now shattered by redundances. I have been using Mastercam for 9 months, of which i started from scratch.

 

What i would like to find out is how everyone progressed into their current position as i see a struggle ahead to get into a new position in the UK! Can anyone offer any 'good' advice.

 

CM (Scotland)

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

It took me 3-4 years machining to get to a point where I was capable of taking something from print to part using CAD/CAM. After 5 years I spent 50-75% of my time programming, the remainder doing setups and running CNC's. Now I spend about 40% programming 10% setting up and running stuff, and the remainder doing Mfg. Eng. stuff, process improvement, cycle time reduction, supervision of 2-3 employees, machine maintenance, and whatever else I can get my hands on. I have a very cool job!

[Harryman]

Been a machinist for 29 years. All materials, lots of different machines, manual and CNC. Have studied most of the core math, physics, and mechanics of a BSME. Sixteen months with MC mill 3 + solids + lathe. Still an intermediate MC user. Currently programming and running a Mazak Integrex. Training a sharp new old dude. Might get another machine.

 

Sorry to hear about the reduction. We've been through that here. It looks like the bosses are beginning to value us again.

 

Experience counts. If you like doing this, find what jobs you can and never miss a chance to learn more. (I'm assuming you're a young engineer.) The degree will be a good thing. Too many machinists don't understand mechanics of deformable bodies at any level and make setup errors because of that. The degree didn't teach you how to machine. Listen to the old dudes for that.

[Toolfab]

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The degree didn't teach you how to machine. Listen to the old dudes for that.

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+1000 to that! You cant learn learn the soundsof machining from a book. You cant learn the proper approach angles and setup processes from a book. A degree is a wonderful thing, practical knowledge is just as important. If you are having a hard time, or are in a stagnant spot with your programming, go run one of your programms on a machine. Before I had the office, I had a workstation by the machine. Program it, then run it. You can learn better from your crashes if you do it yourself rather than pissing off the rest of the operators right away.

 

JM2C

[cam01]

Thanks for the advice. The NC proggramer i support has been a great help. Although my machining knowledge is very basic, and i now see this as a further hurdle. Our programmer has been really busy operating all the companies machines that little time has been spent training me up (not a fault of his own, but the company working him hard!!!).

 

Im thinking of taking a year out if all goes pear shaped, maybe head to Australia and try and get more experience abroad, change of scenery.

[P_Scott]

cam01,

 

Welcome to the forum!

 

I've been in a few places, performed a variety of tasks, and enjoyed most of them, with a couple of exceptions. It wasn't immediately after graduation that I started in manufacturing. I graduated with an Industrial Technology degree in 1992 and had programmed, setup and run a complete CNC Lathe and Mill work cell with automated conveyor and spherical robotics in college. That was a great class. I don't think they offer it any more.

 

I've been with SFA since the end of 1999 and have not regretted my decision. Steve and Frank have been two of the best people I've ever worked for. It has been a relatively stress-free environment. I have no complaints. I've seen many things and talked with hundreds of individuals in our field, not one of which is doing the exact same thing as the other. I have also been given this opportunity to share my knowledge of the software with the members on this forum. Things are turning around for the better, in some industries. The mold industry in the US has been hurt, by China mostly, with cheap labor and relatively short turn around.

 

Well, that's some of my story. I tried to keep it short. Whatever you do, don't accept any position from a screw machine shop in St. Louis, MO. That's probably not likely considering you're from Scotland.

My late Grandpa was born there and I went to visit some very distant relatives in Campbeltown in Sept. of 2001, about 5 hours bus ride west of Glasgow on the Kintyre peninsula. Wonderful people and country. My distant relatives were extremely generous and welcoming people, even though they had never met me. I would love to return visit sometime, perhaps play a round or two with them, hopefully under better circumstances.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

The other thing I thought of is that YOU have to differentiate yourself from the competition. You've got to go the extra mile. Learn every single thing you can. One company I was with had a lay-off. I was spared and someone who had been there signifigantly longer than I was axed because I knew how to TIG weld and he did not. I spent two semesters in weld shop at the local JC and did quite a bit at another job previously. Anybody that's ever welded knows that it's a craft that takes time to learn. He was out, I was in. Sucked to be him!

[Tim Johnson]

I had eight years as a machinist before I started programming. It was easy for to take a print and make a part manually, so I thought it was going a gravy job. I found it was much different with a print and a keyboard. The first four months I would come home wide awake from sitting a desk all day and proceed to fall asleep for an hour in a chair minutes after I sat down.

[Jimmy Wakeford from Barefoot CNC]

The best thing you can do is to learn everythong you can. Even it it means spending your own time to do so. Everyone that I know that I would consider "guru" has sat for hours in front of mc looking for a better way. Once you get to guru then you cqan go bout anywhere and you will enjoy what you do.

 

Thermoforming is actually a very good place to be starting out. You have 2d - 5ax parts and everything in betwween. The redundant stuff... try to figure out ways of automating those. Use the ops library and tool libraries. Use "template" mc9's to import geo into. 1st learn mc, then shprtcuts in mc, then maybe look into vb scripting.

[MetalMarvels]

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The best thing you can do is to learn everything you can. Even it it means spending your own time to do so.

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+1 to that Jimmy!!!

 

Due in part to participation in this forum, my programs are substantially faster and more effective. I have dived into Post Processors and gotten them to do things the way I want (still lots to learn there!). When I started, my programs were definitely NOT production oriented - getting much better now.

 

As an engineer, the biggest thing that I have taken away from my stint as a programmer/operator is a deeper appreciation of designing for MANUFACTURABILITY!!!! Doesn't do any good to design a wiz-bang gizmo that can't be effectively machined.

[crazy^millman]

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Doesn't do any good to design a wiz-bang gizmo that can't be effectively machined.

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+10000000000000000000000000000000000000 on that fact. I got a good one right now. .01 corner Radius 7.900 in the cavity of a mold and yeah they want it there. Square corners also that deep and crazy angles for some bosses and other stuff. Be great if it was a soild but of course it is all surfaces so that is always fun when trying to cut levels of stuff out. Experience is one of life's best teahers but knowing what you should experience is even a better way to learn those things in life. Directions are easy to take in life the hard part is to following them and going the right way. You have choosen what I consider a good path learn what you can and try ot be the best at it and you will never look back. Good luck and hope to see some of your work one day.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

DFM - One fo the least taught concepts in our nation's Institutions of "Higher Learning".

 

Go figure.

 

You know what else has contributed to manufacturbility problems - STL machines. Engineers can make stuff in them that are impossible to produce and they don't/can't understand why.

[Jimmy Wakeford from Barefoot CNC]

James have you seen Ron's stl machines? They are huge. (Also have a 60's kind a feel watching them.)

[MetalMarvels]

I know what you mean about DFM not being taught. I still hold regular classes with fresh out engineers to try to give them some of the basics of manufacturing and technical writing skills. Unfortunately, it is not like when I got out of college - my first company put me with every office and shop for at least a month over the space of 14 months before they let me design the first item. The machine shops, assembly lines, and PCB fab shops were real eye openers. My second company had me spend 6 months in the tool and die shop just polishing and basic mold making before I could do my first design.

 

I really, really, really like CAD/CAM after exposure to pencil and paper drafting, slide rules, and manual machines (not to mention draw-filing and hand flaking).