looking for a Y axis lathe

[rich]

we are looking to buy 2 new Y axis lathes and I woul'd like to get the forums opinions on what to look for,what options to get and what brand to buy. we looked at the Daewoo puma 2000sy yesterday and it seemed like a very respectable machine. Though I feel that the 2500sy is more of the size that will suit our needs. By not ever having a y axis lathe before I'm probally going to overlook something that some of you have already encountered that will help us make a better decision on our purchase.Any of your opinions will be greatly appreciated.

[Dave Loveridge]

We have just purchased 2 daewoo machines, a 250-MS and a 250-MSC one tailstock machine and one Subspindle machine, I will have a 2500sy in my shop tommarrow. All I can tell you right now is I really like these machines, they are very accurate, they are tough, easy to program, and the service is unbeatable. We just sold our mazak 250-SQT with a Y axis and it was the biggest pile of junk I have ever had the Displeaure of running or programming, that machine from the day it was new could not hold tolerance on anything less than .003". I am so glad to be rid of the thing.

Anyway, I will let you know next week what I think about the 2500sy.

Dave

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

I've run a MOri Seiki SL250 SY (Subspindle and Y axis) and it rocked. I used to do more milling in it than turning. IF I were buying a lathe, I would not even consider anything but a Y axis lathe.

 

JM2C

[gcode]

I program for a shop that has two Daewoo 2 axis lathes. They are very strong accurate machines.

If Daewoo y axis lathes are as good as their

regular CNC lathe, you should be real happy with one.

[Reece L Gibson]

Topics to look for:

1. Top spindle speed on the turret(live tooling)

2. Horsepower on the turret

3. Tooling clearance( while using the live tooling)

4. Y axis travel(how far will it move in Y)

5. Options that come with the control(helical and Polar interpolation)

6. How much time does it take to engage the live tooling(cycle time)

7. Box or linear ways.

8. Largest dia tool that can be mounted in the live tooling station.

You can have it all set up only to find that tooling will not clear or having to slow feed rate based on spindle speed.

Shop around and have demo's if possible

[rich]

Dave,

"I will let you know next week what I think about the 2500sy"

 

Please do.

 

James,

Mori has always been one of my favorites.Do you what the mori has for Y axis travel?

 

I was also considering a Y axis twin turret machine but they are not common in our area so I don't have anyone to go talk to about one. Sales guys just tell you what ever you want to hear,I was hoping to talk to some people who are using them (in the real world)to see what kind of limitation issues they may have encountered that maybe they did not see before they bought their machine or options they did not get that they wish they did etc. Thanks for the replys and keep them coming. Rich

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

---

...Mori has always been one of my favorites.Do you what the mori has for Y axis travel...

---

Depends on where you start, and depends on the model. Here's their biggest Y axis machine not including the MT. Mori Seiki SL2500SY looks like 4.7 inches or ±2.4" If the machine you get has a Fanuc Control, get some SRAM cards. You can DNC off them or use them like a Dataserver so long programs are not an issue.

 

Another possibility for a twin turret machine would be the ZT2500Y

 

HTH

[Don S at Barefoot CNC South]

Hi Rich,

Do take a look at the Eurotech line of Y axis machines as well.

 

Thanks, Don S

[rich]

will do Don, thank you.

 

James,Thanks for the links.I also found the MT series machine that looks really interesting. Do you know how far along the post devlopment has come for this type of machine? Have you had any experiance programing one? I will also contact my Mcam rep ,but your opinion is appreciated.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

I've not programmed one. I hear there is a dialed in Post for it somewhere though. You can call the post depertment at CNC (860) 875-5006. I believe it's theirs or perhaps Dave Thompson has done one. It shoudl be similar to an Integrex post which I'm sure there's a dialed in post for that machine. To me it's no different than programming a 5-Axis machine that is a Tilt/Rotary configuration though (Tool Turret tilts and spindle rotates).

[DavidB]

I program two Okuma LB15 machines.

I havent used or programed any other machine so I have nothing to compare it with,but the guys on the shop floor like the machines and the controller.

 

With the live tooling the biggest problem i find is that you can't program the Tailstock Body to retract out of the way so as to create more room for tooling acsess.

 

[DrewG]

Rich, I've just spent some considerable time looking at several Y axis turning centers as I'm in the market for another. My first was a Nakamura Super NTJ which has Y axis(along with rotating . I've just looked at all the Daewoo's mentioned above, as well as more Nakamura's, Mori's, Doosan, and Eurotek. This is my opinion. If price isn't a consideration--Mori and Nakamura make beautiful machine's and are priced about the same. I would buy either of these two first. The Eurotek is less than both Mori and Nak', and comes packed with almost every option standard. It also comes with the largest "bar capacity" for each size machine. Something you should consider if you plan on bar loading. The companies I went to and spoke with who own Eurotek's, loved them. They both had over 20 machines running medical parts. As for the Daewoo, it is a very good, well priced machine. Although the Y axis machine's are fairly new to this company (when compared with the above brands), they build a solid machine. It's not the fastest, but for the money, it can't be beat. I, in fact, am probably going with the 2500Y. The parts I plan on running are coming off a Hyundai turning center, and I can't see spending all the extra money for the Nak or Mori(unless a deal falls my way real soon). I considered the Eurotek, but am leaning more towards the Daewoo. The machines in stock, has everything I need, and the ability to incorporate CAPTO quick change tooling, which is a must for me. The Eurotek's turret cannot.

Please let me know what machine you end up buying, and I'll reciprocate. Good Luck!!!

[rich]

DavidB,Thanks I will keep that in mind.

 

DrewG, Thank you for you response.From what I have seen so far the daewoo like you said is priced very well.I'm looking at the 2500SYL to get thr extra 10 inches between spindles.I do however like Mori's ZT2500 with twin turrets.This I can see woul'd give you some more flexability with how long your tools can be for ops on the sub spindle and with the added live tool positions might make for more standard tools to be left in the machine to reduce setup time.Do you like the CAPTO quick change tooling?I have not used that system before.I have used the KM stuff but found it to be very inadequate,not very Rigid and not very accurate as far as repeatability, at least in the rotary tools department.Komet's ABS I feel is the better modular tool connection compared to KM.Anyway, Thank you for you input and I will certainly keep you posted.

[Dave Loveridge]

Rich,

Well we just got our new Daewoo 2500sy in today and what I can say is that it looks impressive. Here is my attitude towards the Daewoo's and other brands of machines. In my shop we have a wide variety of machines ranging from a Makino MMC palletized system to Kitamura Horizontal to Okuma twin turret turning centers, to Okuma twin spindle machines, down to citizen l25 and l32 screw machines. As mentioned earlier in this post 2 weeks ago I had a Mazak.

 

We have had Okuma turning centers for over 20 years and, for all those years that was all we would buy, they had unbeatable service, the machines where bulletproof and easy to program, We have 4 okuma's currently in our shop ranging from an LB-15, a LB-15iiw, to a LC-40 tiwn turrent, to an LB-45.

The LB-15 and LC-40 are our oldest and probably most reliable machines in the shop.

In 1997 we purchased the LB-15iiW and the quality compared to the older machines is not even close, yes it is very fast, but everything on the machine is just literally falling apart.

Then in 1999 we purchased the LB-45 and it hardly can push an insert drill without stalling out the z axis.

 

In 2001 we purchased the mazak 250-SQT and everyday it was a problem, the chip buildup was just outrages in the machine, we have a long term contract running thousands of aluminum parts on this machine and we had to literally stop the machine every week and tear all the covers and shields off of the machine and clear the chips, if you did not the axis would stall out on the chips. I could go on forever about the problems.

 

2003 and 2004 we purchased 3 daewoo machines. What I really impresses me the very most about these machines and the company is the service, I have vertical mill we purchased in 1999 and in the beggining we had spindle problems, each time we called them and they would show up and replace it without question or problems.

The second thing that impresses me about the machines is the chip evacuation, it does a very good job of clearing the chips out that we rarely have to get in it to clean it out, running the very same job the mazak was running.

Yes it may not be the fastest machine but it is also very tough I run 2-1/4" insert drills on it without any problem.

Well enough gab i guess.

Next week we will have the machine up and running and I will let you know how the y axis is.

 

Dave

 

After all this it is JM2C

[DrewG]

Rich, I looked at the Mori ZT2500 when I was looking at my first Nakamura. It is a very large rigid machine with plenty of room for tooling. The turrets are plenty stout. It isn't cheap though. You'll spend a ton more than the Daewoo. I believe you'll be around 375K-425K when your all tooled up.

As for the CAPTO system. I believe it to be a far superior system compared to KM. Sandvik's tapered polygon system is extremely rigid, and has excellent repeatability. I spent alot of time investigating both, as well as speaking with alot of end users. Your response concering KM is exactly what I heard from several other KM users. In fact, even a major machine tool builder stated similar problems with KM's repeatability and rigidity, and went on to say that they no longer offer their machines with KM's quick change system---only Sandvik CAPTO's. That was enough for me. I purchased CAPTO, and am sold for life. I won't buy a machine that can't be CAPTO adapted. My guys love how quick they can change the twin turrets tooling setup's. On the live tools we utilize Alberti HSK-40A quick change system for ultimate efficiency. Everything gets preset off line on our Zoller Redomatic presetter, than "carted" and wheeled over. The tool offset's and program's are uploaded via CIMCO's wireless DNC system, and in a matter of minutes, the new job's running.

Please let me know what machine tool you purchase. I'll let you know which way I go.

[Don S at Barefoot CNC South]

Rich,

Do look closely at the Eurotech SL-Y as well it may be a little higher priced but well worth it.

 

Thanks Don S

[Mick]

Capto is great. We have it on our LB15. What's also good, is that inserts can be changed on the bench, rather than leaning into the machine all the time.

Also, as mentioned earlier in the post, the Mori Seiki MT series do have a dialled in post for Mastercam. I've seen it in action, and it works fine. Talk to the post department