Machining Ultem 2300, glass filled

[5AXIS505]

Hi

I recently got a repeat job that was made from Ultem 1000 in the past, the customer is wanted them out of 2300 this time and I am finding it difficult to machine especially with the drilling. I have tried running my surface footage from 40 up to 100 at .005 per rev with little success. After a few holes the drill dulls and over sizes the holes. I can not seem to find a lot of info on speeds and feeds for this stuff. I am using HSS drills with no coating, I tried to get my boss to get me diamond coated tools but the best he can do is TiN coated and cobalt drills. I have one carbide drill but I am uncertain at what speeds to run it at.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, this is not been a great start to the week.

[Kyle F]

What size holes are you drilling? Easiest solution IMO would be carbide drills, especially for the glass filled 2300. If you're dead set on using HSS you'll probably burn through them quickly, I would go lower on the SFM side and lighter chip load maybe .0025 instead of .005 but that depends on drill size of course. short pecks. If you need to reduce cycle time go carbide.

I have machined ultem 1000 but I don't believe I've ever milled 2300 so take everything I say with a grain of salt LOL. Just where I would start.

 

https://aipprecision.com/machining-ultem-plastics-guide/

Quote

Another difference between glass-reinforced ULTEM and non-filled ULTEM is that non-reinforced thermoplastics can be machined with high-speed steel cutting tools. You’ll want hard metal tools for reinforced materials.

 

[JParis]

PCD tooling

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

You're just going to be banging your head against the wall trying to cut that with HSS.  You'll probably need fresh cutters for each part, or at least every few parts.  The glass filler is very abrasive.  Even the cheap Redline carbide circuit-board drills (about $4 each) would be a big step up, but yes, you really want diamond coated tools for this.

https://ecomm.productivity.com/catsearch/625/micro-circuit-board-drills/1?facet=[["vend_name"%2C"vend_name"%2C"RedLine Tools"]]

 

[Sumac Andy]

Carbide is a minimum, I'd suggest as JParis has, PCD.

We machine a lot of Tufnol 10G40 and PCD outperforms carbide massively. I'm in the UK and we can get the PCD end mills refinished so the initial outlay of the tool won't be that bad for repeat uses. If threading, we use carbide taps and drilling is carbide also. We have carbide tipped bandsaw blades for slicing the sheets up.

Tufnol SRBGF Material - Grades 10G/40, 10G/41, 10G/42 and 10G/44 | Tufnol

[5AXIS505]

On 1/31/2024 at 5:28 AM, Kyle F said:

What size holes are you drilling? Easiest solution IMO would be carbide drills, especially for the glass filled 2300. If you're dead set on using HSS you'll probably burn through them quickly, I would go lower on the SFM side and lighter chip load maybe .0025 instead of .005 but that depends on drill size of course. short pecks. If you need to reduce cycle time go carbide.

I have machined ultem 1000 but I don't believe I've ever milled 2300 so take everything I say with a grain of salt LOL. Just where I would start.

They are .397 and .438, i got some carbide tipped drills so those should do much better. Thanks for the input. I've machined a ton of 1000 but this glass stuff is completely different. 

On 2/1/2024 at 12:34 AM, Matthew Hajicek - Singularity said:

You're just going to be banging your head against the wall trying to cut that with HSS.  You'll probably need fresh cutters for each part, or at least every few parts.  The glass filler is very abrasive.  Even the cheap Redline carbide circuit-board drills (about $4 each) would be a big step up, but yes, you really want diamond coated tools for this.

Yeah I am finding that out, I am drilling .397 holes 5 inches deep and i cant even get through 4 holes before the drill dulls and walks. I just got carbide tipped drills to try so that should do much better. Do you have any idea what I should run the carbide at? I amm thinking 50-100 sfm at .005-.01 per rev. 

[5AXIS505]

On 1/31/2024 at 5:33 AM, JParis said:

PCD tooling

Thanks that is what i have so well see,  any idea on speeds and feeds?

 

On 2/4/2024 at 10:59 PM, Sumac Andy said:

Carbide is a minimum, I'd suggest as JParis has, PCD.

We machine a lot of Tufnol 10G40 and PCD outperforms carbide massively. I'm in the UK and we can get the PCD end mills refinished so the initial outlay of the tool won't be that bad for repeat uses. If threading, we use carbide taps and drilling is carbide also. We have carbide tipped bandsaw blades for slicing the sheets up.

Thanks for the input! I got some carbide tipped drills to try, any idea what i should run them at?

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

4 hours ago, 5AXIS505 said:

They are .397 and .438, i got some carbide tipped drills so those should do much better. Thanks for the input. I've machined a ton of 1000 but this glass stuff is completely different. 

Yeah I am finding that out, I am drilling .397 holes 5 inches deep and i cant even get through 4 holes before the drill dulls and walks. I just got carbide tipped drills to try so that should do much better. Do you have any idea what I should run the carbide at? I amm thinking 50-100 sfm at .005-.01 per rev. 

Those parameters sound about right; you don't want SFM too high drilling in plastics, since they won't conduct the heat away.  You could try pushing the feed a bit more perhaps, until surface finish starts to be an issue.  I think tool life will be measured in total revolutions in the material, so a higher feed will give you more holes per drill.

[5AXIS505]

32 minutes ago, Matthew Hajicek - Singularity said:

Those parameters sound about right; you don't want SFM too high drilling in plastics, since they won't conduct the heat away.  You could try pushing the feed a bit more perhaps, until surface finish starts to be an issue.  I think tool life will be measured in total revolutions in the material, so a higher feed will give you more holes per drill.

Right on I appreciate it, I try some stuff an see how it goes.

[5AXIS505]

After lots of trial and error this is what I've found.

The holes I drilled with through spindle coolant solid carbide drills, stubby first followed by a long drill. 165 sfm @.002 per rev. I started at .006 but the drills started to walk and produce unround holes. Dropping the feed allowed the drills to produce straight holes. 

I used carbide endmills for roughing and diamond coated tools for finishing, in both cases I ran 300-400 sfm using feeds I would use in aluminum. Seems odd but the material is easy to cut but the time in cut wears the tool, with a higher chip load the tools lasted longer. 

Overall the stuff is pretty stable, I was able to hit all my .003 true positions on the holes and pockets.