Going to purchase a new horizontal cnc

[Jack K]

We are looking to add another horizontal cnc. We already have a Okmuma and Mitz.

 

We want a cat50 with 500mm - 630mm pallet with travel of at least 32" X 28" & 23" in Z.

High speed spindle and all the goodies.

 

Of course $$$$ is always the issue.

 

I thought maybe some of you guys might have some input on what machines in the mid price range are good.

 

Thanks,

Jack

[Nick_AFRL]

well if money is the issue HAAS are pretty good for the price....

[crazy^millman]

I would look at a Kitamura. I see so many with single ball screws and Kitamura has the dual ball screw set-up with translate to more power, strength, and rigidity. I would get atleast a 14,000 rpm spindle get all the hpcc opitions and since PCI slot reading is pretty much standard I would stay away from Datasever opitoin as well. Get expaned workoffsets and well as Macro B. I would look at probing and a pallet pool system if you really want to gain production capabilities. Price is waht everyone always complains about, but need to look at it is an investment. Set-ups and lightout production is more pratical as well as cost effective on a pallet pool system. I keep hoping we will get a 650mm tombstone 40 pallet next if I could find a 1000mm tombstone system I would say go in that direction for us.

 

Good luck in your search but so many say money is tight I say if you got the work then do a time study and think about this. If you reduce 100 parts with 20 set-up a year to 1/4 to 1/10 of what they were you more than pay for it in the 2nd year if not the first year. I see a possible saving in just set-ups from $300,000 to $600,000. The other thing with a system like this JIT is mote pratical. Material can be brought in a needed it bases and you Material warehousing drops saving even more in cash sitting no the floor.

 

Good example I have 8 parts number we are doing in our 40 pallet that if we were doing in a conventional 4 to 5 set-up on a vertical I need to run the years worth to make money on the parts. So instead of doing 20 parts I need to do 120 parts with a Material cost of $47.50 each unit. I also now have 8 hours on shop time in each part puting my investment at the run time of the job at $68,000 then my Materail investment at $36,000 above if I could do just what I need and still make a profit on the parts without having the right machine and system. There is $104,000 being used at the first part of the year or any other time I could really use that captial for other jobs or projects. So where is the cost in for the capital equipment purchase really looked at. I either have to raise my prices which more than likely gives the work to someone else or overseas.

 

Do you spend it now and get soemthing that makes your more competive in today's market or something that make you competive in the market 10 years ago? It all relates and not just getting a newer machine needs to be on people's mind today getting the best system and best way to be productive as well as competive keeping the everyday cost down and keeping the cash flow of the shop at it's best everyday.

 

Another exmaple of this is look at Titaitum what we paid $15/lb 3 years ago is now costing $60/lb I just did a time study on a job at our current price will have to do 347 units to make a profit on the parts. Tht is a material investment of $104,100 and gives me 3 years of production. That is a big gamble to take. Parts could have rev changes, size changes, heat treat differences, or anything to have that much money tied up in Material. Now to do that many parts would also take up 3500 hours of shop time on 6 machines makes it hard to do other customer work in all I have is same ability non-system capability machines I have always had.

 

Sorry to be on the soap box but I have seen this for year we do not have the money to get the opitions or a better machine when it is not seen as it is more of throwing money that could be earned and saved over the year or years of service of better equipment better studied and suited to really make a difference in the everyday operation of the whole shop from the P/L to the guy on the floor who has to do the set-ups and operations of the machine.

 

Oh I know I am crazy and I can not spell.

[Randy Morton @ Clem Industrial]

Hey,

 

We have recently been looking at the Gildemeister DuoBlock series horizontals. Depending on features of course, they can go from a reasonable price to...well, I have heard a local shop spent well over 7 digits recently on one....biggest machine of it's type in Canada supposedly.

 

Anyways, we have been looking at the DuoBlock with 2 pallet changer & 5 axis. They are around 600,000 or so. As Crazy said, you get what you pay for, basically. Spend the little extra and go hard lights out (which is where we want to go) or manned and pay for it in one year, or maybe 2 at most.

 

Get some cheap machine and you will get the consistancy of a cheap machine. I am not going to bash Haas because we have 5 of them here... but I don't care for them. Seem like kinda poorly built products...IMHO.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Jack K]

Thanks for the input guys. We have talked about a Haas.

 

Jack

[SLJ]

We are just beginning a search for something similar. Looking at Mori, Toyoda, and Daewoo. We have had very good luck so far with the 3 Daewoo DVC400's, but the oldest one is only a year and a half old. Tool sales man the other day said the DVC400 were stouter than the other Daewoo models he'd demo'ed tools on and was impressed with them. Looking at DHP500, but so far only in brocheres.

[Carl Anderson]

Makino...Nuf said

[Brian Scullion]

Matsuura h-plus 630

We have just now purchased our third one in the last 2 years,We cut titanium, Hard Metal and Automotive Cast Iron parts 24Hrs a day every day.

and no problems! Great Machine