Fadal Question

[smokey_44]

Like you said not tryin to have a *issing contest but ...just because something is cheaper and faster does NOT mean better ...they buy the die for 100,000 cheaper there bring here to run and relize they have to they have to sink in 40,000 extra just to keep it running , now that happens a few times in the dies life and BINGO there your savings out the window. I ve seen this first hand. Not saying this happens on every die just some.

 

 

Dave

[moldman7]

Ed,

G8 Acceleration (no feed ramps)

G9 Acceleration (Feed Ramps)

 

From the Fadal G code chart. Like I said be careful with G8 - you will not get the true part geometry if it makes a difference to you.

 

We make electrodes on our Fadal. I've made several thousand over 6 years. One spindle change - rebuilt cost $2,700 plus $300.00 labor. Replaced monitor cost $500.00 (Did that myself)Not bad for six yesrs and thousands of hours on a $43,000.00 machine. Is it a Makino? No but it doesn't cost $200,000.00 plus either. (I have to confess I am going to buy a Makino next year but we aren't a start up company anymore either.)By the way a new spindle for Makino is about 30K. A friend of mine had a light crash - Goodbye spindle. Goodbye 30k plus install. Something to think about when you are the one paying the bills. 30k is nothing to a large company but it is a bunch for a small one.

[moldman7]

Dave,

 

I know exactly what you are talking about. We make plastic injection molds. The pricing is really cheap, hard to look good on price. We get them here to modify/repair, that's when they find out the deal wasn't so good after all(usually).Unfortunately, some are descent quality. Most are garbage and will fail in short order.

 

Norm

[billystein]

+1 Moldman

 

I know fadal is not the best machine out there. As I hear it the haas is even more popular. But I am ordering a fadal this week. I have dealt with those fanuc guys for years and they really know how to over charge for their service. I really have nothing to say about haas. I have never run one. The best programmer that I know has a shop with 15 fadals and won't consider anything else. I can also say that i wouldn't buy one of the 8030s. they wear out too fast and lose tolerance very quickly. on the other hand the 2015 with boxway is very accurate and can stay accurate for years. I ran some for 10 years and never had problems with accuracy.

I also believe that fadals are easier to setup than fanuc controlles machines. I have taught many operators on fadals and they are easier to learn.

that being said I have a chonce to buy a 60x25 hitatchi seiki for about 25k. I can buy a rebuilt fadal 4020 for $28,5. all things considered i Have to go with the fadal. I would like to have the power and extra travel but the cost of possible repair and service is too much for a startup company

 

billy

[Jake Statz]

Good Luck with the Fadal. 2 1/2D Tooling fine but Good Luck with 3D surfacing.

Just my experience. Fadals are cheaper but the productivity and output of a higher quality machine will pay for itself in no time.

I do agree that for the most part Fadals are easier to setup and operate.

[gcode]

quote:

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Better....Not a *ucken chance

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When I was a boy, "Made in Japan" meant cheap

stamped sheet metal toys. You wound them up, watched them roll around and laughed at what

a POS it was.

Now they build the best cars and machine tools in the world. You can't buy an Amercian made TV set at any price.

 

20 years ago I bought a built in Tiawan copy of a

Bridgeport new for $1600. It was a POS, but Bridgeport wanted $7K and a 6 months to deliver. Bridgeport is dead and gone now.

 

Chinese molds may be junk today but they won't be tomorrow.

 

Sorry for the hijack

[Mjölnir]

quote:

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Chinese molds may be junk today but they won't be tomorrow.

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There are a lot of hack shops building junk molds right here in the USA, so that's sort of like the pot calling the kettle black.

 

Over the past few years I've seen some pretty nice work come from China as I've been working for mold shops that regularly broker tooling over seas. Don't be kidding yourselves about the Chinese quality eventually getting there... it's already here.

[billystein]

"When I was a boy, "Made in Japan" meant cheap"

 

+1 gcode. when I started in machine shops all the old farts thought mitutoyo tools were junk.

just like korean stuff is getting better now. the vipers are gaining many fans and I know some people who like their cars. I dont think they are equal to japanese products but I think they are considered better than chinese stuff.

one thing i am certain of. the tough times of manufacturing here in america will make us all better programmers and machinists.

if not I'll see you on corner, I'll be the one with the god bless you sign

 

billy

[TheePres]

But stay away from my windshield Billy, I had it cleaned at previous intersection.

[within a thou]

quote:

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When I was a boy, "Made in Japan" meant cheap

stamped sheet metal toys. You wound them up, watched them roll around and laughed at what

a POS it was.

Now they build the best cars and machine tools in the world. You can't buy an Amercian made TV set at any price.

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They are mking the best cars because there plants are NOT unionized it costs Fords 130k a year per employee due to the UAW. That is why all these buyouts are being issued and the workforce for the Big 3 is downsizing using the buyouts take the initial hit knowing it will save ya down the line. Which is no diferent on spending the money on a good machine kowing it will pay itself back in no time.

 

Its our own greed thats going to kill our economies and this is not just americans I am talking about canadians are just as guilty the biggest difference bewteen the 2 countries is you americans went with 3 colours for your flag compared to our 2.

 

Companies like toyota aregetting ahead because of the systems they put togeether are far more superior to our Lean manufacturing and ISO designations and until we rethink these standards the rest of the world will catch up and surpass us. What worked then is not working now we have to work as a whole to rework the system and guarantee our great grandchildren and all other generations have the same quality of life that we weree given by our greatgrandparents who fought and sacrificed so much in previous wars. Cause what this is is a war just not one fought with a gun its being fought with our minds and as of right now we are losing which should also rethink our stand on the education system. But who can aford a good university now anyways. If we were to cut out the money we are handing out to 3rd world countries that will never be able to pay it back we need to keep that money in house and rework our system cause our ship is the one with holes in it that need to be addressed first before people in the middle east are making jokes about buying rubber dog $hit with the "Made in North America" stamped on it

[Ed@Gentex]

Thanks for the Fadal Help guys!

 

lol

Ed

[smokey_44]

Sorry for the Hy-jack on my part Ed

 

 

LOL

 

 

Dave

[Guest]

Blame me, I get it around here all the time anyway, my shoulders are big enough

 

[Ed@Gentex]

As far as Toyota Making a better car Than US or any foren car for that matter, I have not seen one yet that can touch my 03 Mustang Mach 1!

[gcode]

quote:

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Thanks for the Fadal Help guys

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Sorry for the hijack

The only Fadal help I've got is...

buy a Mori Sieki