O/T Get an education

[Mike Freimann]

The Mastercam Certification program is close to completion. This project has taken five years. Defining the skills that good CNC Programmers have is a monumental task. I cannot get into details right now but hope to have things in place within the next two months. I hope Mastercam Certification will help.

Mike Freimann

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

How I got started, oh let me see... Well I was a Cabinet Maker while in HS and out of HS for a few years. Worked for a real Adam Henry if you get my drift. He was so bad I left the trade. I did odd stuff, telemarketing for a couple of months, Preschool Teacher for about a year (had to go to Nanny School for that one ) installed Car Stereos other odds and ends until I was 22. I was definitely a recipient of the "It's not what you know, it's who you know" gift. My dad had worked for Cummins Engine Co. here in SoCal for about 14-15 years, they were hiring so I applied. My dad is a great employee so they decided to take a gamble to "see if the apple stays close to the tree" or not. I worked there for 3 years. I took advantage of EVERY training opportunity, tuition reimbursement, meeting I could get into. It paid off. After about a year and a half they created a new department, it was something new, Kaizen. We had to apply. I was one of the 4 picked. We were to be in charge of process improvement. Being from the shop we knew it better than any Engineer. The union was pissed because it blurred our titles. I told the company, I did not want a raise even if I was doing higher level work. That pissed the union off more but who cares, they were very unkind to me because I LIKE TO WORK anyway. Management and the union got it all straightened out, how I don't know and can only speculate. I figured the experience would more than pay off in the future and it has handsomely(sp?) I did welding, jig-fixture design, prototype machining, and a host of other things. That lasted until they closed our plant down. Thank You NAFTA. After than I started working in job shops, taking advantage of every opportunity to learn, teach, whatever. That's how I got started and that's how I got where I am today. Did I mention I got a lot of breaks here and there along the way? I got to know people, networked, got good advice and got plenty of breaks.

So if youre out ther reading this somewhere, and you have not got your break, you gotta go after it, a lot of it is "luck". Being at the right place at the right time (like when the lead programmer quits just like that and there's a job due in two days that's not programmed) you gotta be ready for stuff like that, and you gott be willing to put your own time into being sucessful. That goes for anything. Besides, it never hurts to back up what you know with a piece of paper or at least some units to show you're serious, not that spending the last something odd years doesn't show you are serious(not to mention the atrocious(sp?) amount of money we spend on our tools). I just think a combination of both(experience and edjukashun ) can't be beat.

Hey Mike, I'd like to take that Mastercam Certification when it becomes available because you just never know...........

[ 01-15-2002: Message edited by: James Meyette ]

[Zero]

anybody else work in any kind of model or proto type shop?If you do you know the 6 words that make me want to strangle any designer or engineer that utters the words(almost always just a slim few hours before the already tight deadline and they've made some drastic changes)-

 

All you have to do is...................

[JAMMAN]

So this means Mastercam users can become "certified" mastercam users? Can I take a test over the internet or do I have to take time off that I don't have and pay money I don't have to get certified in something I allready know? Didn't mean to sound mean, I'm just exhibiting one side of a many sided coin and I am interested in the certification, and thank you for any part you had in the project. However, what do we do right now this month for people like Gcode, Beav, and many others (including myself)who seem to have a currently unpopular education to experience ratio?

[JAMMAN]

quote:

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All you have to do is...................

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The one that tweeked me was "Why don't you just.."

[Zero]

That's a good question.How do I go about getting this mastercam certification?

[Reece L Gibson]

Well Mike, it's finally coming around.

[Kenneth Potter]

I got started working in shop were my leaders nick name was Crash!!!!!!. This guy was supposed to be a Cnc guru ""hahahahah"""". After seeing him Smack a 10k Spindal into junk I knew right away what i wanna do for living Got hands on training on my own for while .Then went back to School full time. That was a hundred years ago & i have been to a lot of shops sence then. My first cam system was Cim Linc (1985) on a 186cpu And yup I,m and old fart

Kenneth Potter

[Travis_Buchanan]

I program for a furniture company. There are 3 programmers where I work keeping 11 cnc going 24/5 +. We also have to program 3 Z-laser projectors, that we use to position parts with. Cut sizes are less than 100pcs. Cycle times range from 3 minutes to a hour an a half max. We usually introduce 30 to 40 new pieces of furniture each spring and fall. I wrote 7 programs tonight. Five 2&1/2 axis parts & two 3 axis parts. I have certificates from Community Colleges, MasterCAM, and various machines dealers where I have taken courses to try and better myself. I have 3 years operator experience (CNC router), 1 year (job shop cnc operator) and 8 years programming. What do I get? 14 buck an hour an a huge headache. They have pretty much lost all the good help out on the floor, so what do they do? Don't wory about it they say, Ole Buzz is up there in the office if we need anything. And some of the engineers we have couldn't draw a box. Hey those 2 lines don't intersect, well don't worry about it, ole Buzz will catch that when he is Camming that part, let's go out and eat and then play a round of golf. Zero respect 0. I'm done ranting. No one more thing, get an education if you can, even if it is in basket weaving, you get more respect and probably better pay.

--

Buzz Lightyear

[ 01-15-2002: Message edited by: Buzz Lightyear ]

[Mike Freimann]

Sorry it took so long to get back. If I don’t stay focused we will not get certification.

Please allow me to paint this picture with broad strokes. What I am saying here could be applied elsewhere.

The goal of Mastercam Certification is to set a baseline. Mastercam certification also needs to have the same type of respect/credentials that Microsoft or Cisco certification has. Mastercam Certification will be a standard. There will also be different levels of certification.

Anyone who wants to be Mastercam certified will need to apply a significant amount of effort. I could lay it all out here and now but I won’t. CNC Software will be the only CAD/CAM Company offering certification for some time. We need to do it right and it needs to have integrity to benefit all of us.

The first Mastercam Certification Instructor class will be available in July. Check out mastercamedu.com in about two weeks.

Mike Freimann

[Ron]

This is a wandering post... read at your own risk of disorientation.

To all you non-degreed people out there... hang in there. Hopefully it will pick up soon. I am an educator of high school students and have started a program in CNC so some of my students could get a decent job out of HS without going to a 4 year school. I am in partnership with a local manufacturing company and the one stipulation I had is they had to send down their workers to help teach the class. It has been better than I ever expected. The current person they are sending actually teaches better than I do and I have a MS. I generally step back and listen and learn with my students. So the respect is there although you may not see it.

All you machinists, don't be afraid to go to the schools sometime and see what they are doing and if you really want to live on the edge, volunteer some time. Speaking for myself, I am always happy to learn from someone better than myself.

I don't agree with the diploma needed for a job all the time but it does have its place in the workplace. I am currently researching NIMS accreditation for my students.

As a footnote, I have seen some "professionals" who couldn't put two ideas together but could spend a lot of time discussing how it could be theoretically done.

A quote comes to mind concerning this thread: If you think education is expensive, try unemployment.

[Sem001]

Let's see I got started workin in the trade when I went with a buddy to drop off his tool box at a shop and got hired on the spot no experience and after 6 years runnin various mills mainly vmc's and constantly complainin about designers who have never even heard of an endmill let alone know the limits of what one can do I finally got promoted to a suit and the office job doin product design 3d modellin and cam programming basically get a 2d drawing of what the customer wants factor shrink and I build a tool around it which I enjoy a lot better I know in cambridge they offer a mastercam certification which runs a few days my concern is what is class size like and how much of the three days is spent goin over things I alreaady know and finally the last thing that makes me wonder is how well are these are these instructors goin to train me when sometime down the road I could come and take there position? *L*

And to the guy above offerin jobs in sunny San Diego where do I apply?

[JAMMAN]

quote:

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This is a wandering post... read at your own risk of disorientation.

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I'll start the next topic with "W/T" instead of "O/T"

[Bullines]

quote:

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I know in cambridge they offer a mastercam certification which runs a few days my concern is what is class size like and how much of the three days is spent goin over things I alreaady know and finally the last thing that makes me wonder is how well are these are these instructors goin to train me when sometime down the road I could come and take there position?

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Sem001, here's some info about Mastercam training at In-House Solutions:

- class sizes are never larger than six people

- depending on the course, classes last from 1 to 4 days

If you would like more information on the types of training we offer, go here.

Knowledge is power.

[ 01-15-2002: Message edited by: Bullines ]

[JAMMAN]

Which one of the in housers will be instructing?

[cadcam]

Jammen ,that would be "doogie houser".

You know the young boy doctor from TV.

Some times,I think I might actully be funny.

[ 01-15-2002: Message edited by: cadcam ]

[Bullines]

Don't feel bad, Jay. My Mortal Kombat 3 reference went un-noticed. I'm unfunny, too

PS: Doogie Howser rocked

[JAMMAN]

I'm just wondering if I drive all the way to Canada if I will learn anything goog.

[cadcam]

Thank you sir.

And i new i spelled that wrong.

Sorry i am have a bad time now.

Hope all is well out there.

Welcome to the new year.

[JAMMAN]

Please take a breath, Jay. That was not directed at you in the least and I guess I should publically apologize for the original poke. Your help on the forum far surpasses any gramatical or spelling mistakes in your popular postings. I have learned a lot from you. So here goes....

I am sorry for making fun of the word goog and I promise to not subject forum members to any further references. I feel like a heel.

[beav700]

Well , today I called eight coleges to find out little bit about Mechanical Engineer degree. Only one of them offered evening classes and was only for associate degree. No evening classes for bachelor deg. which means I would have to quit working for four years. Yeah that will happen.In most of the collages you need to take two classes (two full credits)of AutoCad 2002 and one class for Mechanical Desktop 6. Northwestern University had optional CAM classes with SmartCAM. Are those people for real? AutoCad is only used by civil engineers these days. SmartCAM is five years old.

Some ads showed up in todays paper. Check this out.

http://my.careerbuilder.com/scripts/CGIHnd...A04B6?S2=790004

 

The add says:

Journeyman CNC Machinist. Looking for experienced machinist who

can program, set-up, run, and edit CNC equipment. Must have

Surf-Cam version 7.0 software experience, need to program using

G-code. Machines used are:Hurco, Mazak, and Haas. Experience

with these machines is a plus. 2nd shift position. Must have

minimum of 7-10 years experience.

Salary: $13.98/HOURLY

[MetalMarvels]

I will begin with the comment that this forum has been an absolute goldmine of information. I finally made it through all of the posts available for perusal. Whew! A ton of useful information and a good deal of fun.

Second, I am one of "those" people - an engineer (even worse - I am now a Chief Engineer). I am an engineer who began my career as a tool and die maker's apprentice before moving to the "dark side" of engineering. Even now, the corporation is after me to continue my education by obtaining a Doctorate - not because it would enhance my job performance, but because it enhance the "corporate image and credibility."

The shop here is primarily a "job shop" for the contract and production is getting to make the same part 5 times (sometimes on the same day). I really enjoy the use of MasterCam 8.1.1 to "flesh out" my designs created in AutoDesk Mechanical Desktop 5.0, then to cut the parts. I also thoroughly enjoy learning something new about the art (yes, "art") of carving, forming, and polishing metal (you can keep wood for my money).

I also have been driven to the depths of despair by my fellow engineer's desire to specify .001 - .0001 tolerances on everything in sight (particularly on items that should be cut to the nearest 1/4 inch) and their unfailing ability to design 90 degree inside corners in 8-inch deep pockets. I am a firm believer that all engineers (mechanical engineers in particular) should spend a significant amount of time "apprenticing" in the "nuts and bolts" side of their particular industry. Education is great, but education coupled with good experience can be pure dynamite.

Just my 2 cents....

Regards,

Gary R Westfall

[cadcam]

Hey Jamman,

I did not take offence to any thing you said.

I feel you did not have to apologize but thank you any way.

I need to take a few breaths at this moment.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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2nd shift position. Must have

minimum of 7-10 years experience.

Salary: $13.98/HOURLY

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OH, MY GOSH!!!!!!!!!!! I thought most of the Crack-Heads(Translated Freebase Cocaine Drug Addicts) were in prison. They HAVE got to be joking!!! The sad thing is, there is probably someone who is in dire straights out of a job has a family to feed that will HAVE to take that job. That is just sick. The owners of that company should be ashamed of themselves for having such requirements for such low pay. I'm absolutely flabbergasted. That position should pay at least minimum $15-$16 (Closer to $16 IMHO).

I'm counting my blessings as we speak that I'm not in a position so as to have to take a position like that.

[JAMMAN]

Being on salary there are some weeks I make around

that number.