Looking for informed opinions

[Kyle Waters]

Good Afternoon All, I was looking for some information regarding mill/turn machines, Okuma MULTUS specifically. I would like to know if anyone has any experience with this machine. We currently have a Mori MT2000SZ and I think it a great machine. We also have an older Okuma LB-15 which I also think is great. I don't have a preference as far as builders go, they both have a pretty solid handle on what they're doing. I have a brochure and I've spoken with a sales representative, I would just like some feedback from people that have actually used the machine.

Thanks for your time

[Colin Gilchrist]

Personally, I'm not a fan of the Okuma controls. I would go Mori or Mazak.

 

Just my 2 cents,

 

Colin Gilchrist

[Kyle Waters]

Well, that would be an additional option. However, we are a Japanese owned company, highly unlikely a Mazak will make it past the guard. I'll look though, thanks Colin

[tryon]

The Nakamura NTJX is a nice Integrex/multus style machine as well. We looked at one awhile back. Our choice was coming down between Mazak and Nakamura. We didnt get the job so unfortunatly no machine either.

[MMT-USA]

Last time I did this I got trampled

[Colin Gilchrist]

Hi Kyle,

 

Mazak is short for Yamazaki. A short quote from their website:

 

quote:

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Mazak Corporation is the North American manufacturing, sales and support arm of the leading international machine tool builder, Yamazaki Mazak Corporation (Oguchi, Japan). We produce machine tools and systems for the precision machining of metal parts, including CNC turning centers, horizontal and vertical machining centers, multi-tasking machining centers, turnkey cells, and software solutions to help customers achieve lean, efficient manufacturing operations.

---

IMHO they are way better than Okuma.

 

 

Thanks,

 

Colin Gilchrist

[Guest SAIPEM]

Mazak is Japanese.

The controls are Mitsubishi hardware.

Only the Nexxus line is manufactured in Kentucky.

 

Okuma has never really recovered from the major downturn that begain around 1998.

 

They did it to themselves when they started bringing in the cheap Czech Iron and competed with their own line.

 

What used to be a sprawling Campus in Charlotte with Manufacturing on site is now a ghost town.

 

Nothing more than simple accessory assembly is done there now.

 

The Tech Center has been abandoned for years.

 

Odds are they'll be the next Hitachi-Seiki.

[Storkman]

I know chrism runs alot of Okumas and swears by them. We have a couple of mills here and they are decent machines.

[Colin Gilchrist]

I agree with you Terry. Good machine, terrible controls.

 

JM2C,

 

Colin Gilchrist

[Rick Henrickson 65]

How can you say the OKUMA controls are terrible?

I think they are a very use friendly control

 

And LT series lathe is hard to beat if used right both turrets on both heads there are top.

[jeff]

quote:

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Good machine, terrible controls

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Wow, interesting.

Me personally I LOVE their controls, beats Fanuc hands down.

[Keith @ Solid Code Solutions]

quote:

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How can you say the OKUMA controls are terrible?

I think they are a very use friendly control

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+1000

 

They also have a new control platform out now.

[Keith @ Solid Code Solutions]

Okuma Control Linky

[Rick Henrickson 65]

Oh and by the way how many fanuc controls have thumb drives?

 

variables and parameters are way easier to use.

 

and you could have 4 MORI'S each with a fanuc control but all diffrent by a little do to there age!

[chris m]

Okuma makes very fine machines, as do Mori-Seiki and Nakamura-Tome; I don't think you can go wrong with any of those. I personally think the Yamazaki Mazak Corporation sucks though their iron is pretty good; I have a long running beef with them so I cannot rationally comment on that line.

 

I run 11 Okuma CNC lathes day in and day out and they are beautiful machines, we turn tenths all day with no problems. We have L370 and LNC8 lathes and an LT with 5020L, U100L, and E100L controls. I have not run a Multus so I cannot speak for that particular machine.

 

The E control is fantastic to work with and very powerful, though they are different at the outset if you have not used them regularly; the people who say 'Okuma controls suck' typically just haven't been shown the capabilities or spent the time working with them.

 

The 'Okuma is going downhill' thing is a bullsh!t myth perpetrated by machine tools salesmen with lackluster product; I was in their Nagoya plant last year and they were building so many machines you couldn't friggin' turn around.

 

Feel free to email me directly if you have a specific question.

 

C

[Joel Walker]

I've used Okuma, and I thought they were great!! Never had any mechanical problems with them, plus they use absolute pulse encoders, so no need to zero return when you turn it on.

[Guest SAIPEM]

quote:

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The 'Okuma is going downhill' thing is a bullsh!t myth perpetrated by machine tools salesmen with lackluster product; I was in their Nagoya plant last year and they were building so many machines you couldn't friggin' turn around.

---

When was the last time you took a look at the Headquarters in Charlotte, NC?

 

People like you were saying the same thing about Hitachi-Seiki until the bank came and locked the doors.

 

The truth is that Okuma is NOT a financially stable company.

It is not a reflection on the quality of their product.

 

However, Mazak outsells Okuma by a VERY WIDE margin.

 

PS- I'm not a machine tool salesman.

[Rick Henrickson 65]

Charlotte is not a reflection of OKUMA anyway, the Japanese machines are the only OKUMAS to buy.

 

As far as finacial security I dont think OKUMA is going anywhere.

 

and I would say it depends on the area as to if MAZAK outsells OKUMA.

 

Nortwest mazak is not that dominate

 

P.S. I have been in applications for both OKUMA and MAZAK

[chowquoe^]

I have no experience with any other mill/turn centers other than Mazak. I love them to death, I got so used to programming them when I had to program a 3+2 it told me "too many axis commanded" loved it. Any how I would go with the Integrex hands down.

 

[Guest SAIPEM]

quote:

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Charlotte is not a reflection of OKUMA anyway, the Japanese machines are the only OKUMAS to buy.

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Now that's funny!

 

Okuma doesn't manufacture any machines in the US anymore and Charlotte is the National Headquarters for Okuma America Corporation.

 

Any Okuma bought in the United States is bought through Okuma America.

[Greg Williams]

quote:

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The truth is that Okuma is NOT a financially stable company.

It is not a reflection on the quality of their product.

---

Yes dear it is only a cold sore I promise!

[Colin Gilchrist]

Hi Guys,

 

My reasons to not like Okuma have more to do with they way they implement Gcode and setup their machines than with the features the controls contain. I'm sure the control will give you good results once you learn how to use it, that goes without saying. I'm not sure if they still do things the same way, so if they have changed their ways, please enlighten me.

 

 

Its been a while and I haven't seen the new controls, but here are the features that I didn't like (for mills):

 

[*]Using G15 H#'s for fixture offsets (I like G54's because I like H to be used for height offsets, its less confusing for the operator who has to switch machines)

[*]Machine Home (0,0,0)- has the gage line of the spindle just above the bed of the machine. I like my machine home with the Z axis retracted in Z, not down on the table. Call me crazy. Try running around working on several different machines and then giving an MDI command of G30 X0.Y0.Z0. because you forgot. It happend to me.

[*]Basically Okuma did not implement EIA gcode the way *most* other 'fanuc style' machines do it. They may have changed recently, but when I ran a newer Okuma (2001ish) with an OSP 7000 control, they still used gcode as I mentioned above

I've worked in many different shops and probably used 30+ different types of controls. I know thats not a lot compared to some people, but most of those controls used or had the ability to use (think a Mazak running EIA code) fairly standard Gcode. I was in a shop in Seattle a few years back and of the 8 different types of contols there, only the Okuma used a different work offset/height offset arrangement.

 

If you work in an Okuma only shop then they are great. If you have a mix of machines I don't really care for them. It can lead to confusion for the operators. Please don't get me wrong guys, Okuma's are rugged, rigid, and dependable. I love the way they cut metal and operate with very little maintainence. I just don't care for they way they are set up and programed. To me this is Gcode:

 

[*]G0 rapid positioning

[*]G1 linear interpolation

[*]G2 circular/helical interpolation (clockwise)

[*]G3 circular/helical interpolation (counterclockwise)

[*]G4 dwell

[*]G10 coordinate system origin setting

[*]G17 XY-plane selection

[*]G18 XZ-plane selection

[*]G19 YZ-plane selection

[*]G20 inch system selection

[*]G21 millimeter system selection

[*]G28 return to home

[*]G30 return to secondary home

[*]G38.2 straight probe

[*]G40 cancel cutter radius compensation

[*]G41 start cutter radius compensation left

[*]G42 start cutter radius compensation right

[*]G43 tool length offset (plus)

[*]G49 cancel tool length offset

[*]G53 motion in machine coordinate system

[*]G54 use preset work coordinate system 1

[*]G55 use preset work coordinate system 2

[*]G56 use preset work coordinate system 3

[*]G57 use preset work coordinate system 4

[*]G58 use preset work coordinate system 5

[*]G59 use preset work coordinate system 6

[*]G61 set path control mode: exact path

[*]G61.1 set path control mode: exact stop

[*]G64 set path control mode: continuous

[*]G80 cancel motion mode (including any canned cycle)

[*]G81 canned cycle: drilling

[*]G82 canned cycle: drilling with dwell

[*]G83 canned cycle: peck drilling

[*]G84 canned cycle: right hand tapping

[*]G85 canned cycle: boring, no dwell, feed out

[*]G86 canned cycle: boring, spindle stop, rapid out

[*]G87 canned cycle: back boring

[*]G88 canned cycle: boring, spindle stop, manual out

[*]G89 canned cycle: boring, dwell, feed out

[*]G90 absolute distance mode

[*]G91 incremental distance mode

[*]G92 offset coordinate systems and set parameters

[*]G93 inverse time feed rate mode

[*]G94 units per minute feed rate mode

[*]G98 initial level return in canned cycles

[*]G99 R-point level return in canned cycles

Again this is just my opinion. I don't mean to step on anybody's toes, but Kyle was asking for advice.

 

BTW, Kyle, what G codes do the other machines in your shop use?

 

Thanks,

 

Colin Gilchrist

[Colin Gilchrist]

sorry for the spelling guys, I got off on a tangent.

 

[Guest SAIPEM]

Colin -

 

What always irritated me about Okuma OSP Controls was the way they simply ignored established standard G-Codes for Turning canned cycles on the OSP control.

 

Okuma's VTLs actually use Okuma-Howa (completely separate and different company) VTL frames.

Okuma sold plenty of these to the Big-3 Auto Manufacturers and the 1st Tier suppliers and with Fanuc controls.

In Japan, you have the choice of OSP or Fanuc.

In the US, it's soley OSP (Unless you're GM, Ford or Chrysler).

[Kyle Waters]

Colin, this is our list:

Lathes

1 Mori MT2000SZ -MSG-501(Fanuc 16M)

1 LB15 -OSP5000L

Mills

4 MC-4VA -OSP5000M 3+2

2 Tsudakoma TN-201

2 Tsudakoma TN-200

1 MB-46VA -OSP-P100M-H 5 axis

1 Tsudakoma TN-200

1 MB-46VAE -OSP-P100M-H 5 axis

1 Tsudakoma TN-200

1 MB-56VA -OSP-E100M-H 5 axis

1 Tsudakoma TN-301

So you can see that we are almost solely OSP. Ironically enough, I am the only guy here that "gets" the Mori. I think most of that is the two path control. But most of the guys here don't care about work offsets or tool offsets, I have a calculation program in all the machines to set the work coordinates and programs for setting tool lengths with tool life info. My preference happens to lie with Fanuc simply because they provide you with manuals listing the parameters with descriptions allowing you to do almost anything you like. I am a little irritated with the OSP in this sense, I asked for the program for the in-machine tool presetter so that I could modify it(my dollar given right as a customer) they said, "You may request changes from Okuma America, and we will make the requested changes at an hourly rate." My tool presetter in the Mori is completely open, and has been (user)modified successfully.

I do agree that the front side of the OSP is more user friendly, and I like the windows platform of the P controls. I came from a shop that was almost entirely Fanuc driven so I am much more comfortable with them. Maybe in another 5 years I will be saying the same of OSP.