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Big mistake not prog. in Inc. for 5axis

SydwazShawn

By SydwazShawn,
in Industrial Forum

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SydwazShawn Newbie

SydwazShawn

Posted
Posted

One of my first programs I made for the 5axis was programmed all in absolute. We ended up roughing the part out in another machine this last go around to save 5axis time. Found out that the tool pulled out .02 on the other machine. Parts are still usable, except I need to lower the z0 offset down on the 5 axis to clean up. Well it has 170 opperations all in absolute! Uggg…

 

Now I suppose I have to go in on every opp. and adjust the z heights? I sure can’t wait till my new machine comes with dynamic fixture comp.

 

Lame! I think I have learned my lesson! frown.gif

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Bruce Caulley Newbie

Bruce Caulley

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Someone here posted a solution whereby a post mod would do the adjustment for you. Can't remember who or what though. Maybe they'll chime in.

 

I don't know the geometry, but since 0.02" isn't much, is it possible to move the home position and just regen? With such a small change maybe clearances won't be affected?? Also if there are only a couple of views, you could probably do some calcs and adjust offsets accordingly at the machine.

 

quote:
I sure can’t wait till my new machine comes with dynamic fixture comp.

Any MTB :cough: Haas :cough: that has a 5-axis line of machines and does not offer dynamic comp needs to go broke. IMO

 

Bruce

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crazy^millman Veteran

crazy^millman

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Posted

Can I ask a stupid question here. Why can't you just lower the Z offset on the mafchine verses reporting with the longer offset. You will still have an extra .02 taken off after posting with the new length so what is done is done and the only way to ix it would be drop the whole program .02 or .05 if you got the stock. Put the tool back where is suppose to be and rerun. I think you are making more work that needs to be.

 

Just my humble opinion is all.

 

HTH

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SydwazShawn Newbie

SydwazShawn

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quote:
I don't know the geometry, but since 0.02" isn't much, is it possible to move the home position and just regen? With such a small change maybe clearances won't be affected?? Also if there are only a couple of views, you could probably do some calcs and adjust offsets accordingly at the machine.

This probably will work. I need to play with it Monday to see if Its feasible. I do have 6 different planes, and they all have a good amount of work on them and tools.

 

 

quote:
Ouch. You need TCP

 

I think this is the post change

 

shft_misc_r : 0 #Read the axis shifts from the misc. reals

#Part programmed where machine zero location is WCS origin-

My new machine coming, has TCP and dynamic fixture comp! smile.gif I think I will just go in the operations and change them there. I’m new to this, and I don’t know a lot about posts, so I think I will feel more comfortable just doing it the hard way for now. headscratch.gif

 

 

quote:
I think the more important lesson here is the solve the root cause.

 

Find a better holder solution where you tool won't pull out

Well there is that! Also new machine will have tool detection. biggrin.gif

 

 

quote:
Can I ask a stupid question here. Why can't you just lower the Z offset on the mafchine verses reporting with the longer offset. You will still have an extra .02 taken off after posting with the new length so what is done is done and the only way to ix it would be drop the whole program .02 or .05 if you got the stock. Put the tool back where is suppose to be and rerun. I think you are making more work that needs to be.

Well I do have extra stock to use. I programmed everything off rotation centerline on the 5axis HAAS. If I lower the z offset down to clean up, the top view will clean but all my rotation planes will be @ the wrong z height. If I move my geo down in Mcam, I’m pretty sure the z depths won’t adjust for that. I need to see Monday, maybe I’m making this harder than it needs to be! cheers.gif

 

Shawn.

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Dave.L Newbie

Dave.L

Posted
Posted

quote:
quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think the more important lesson here is the solve the root cause.

 

Find a better holder solution where you tool won't pull out

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Well there is that! Also new machine will have tool detection.

Well, tool detection won't solve this problem if the tool is getting pulled out when being cut and not detected until the part is done.

 

Just trying to help cheers.gif

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j.nguyen Newbie

j.nguyen

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Maybe I shouldn't ask the question, but why can't MC have an axis system that is not attached to operations, but to the toolpath group. If, a 5-axis truion or 4-axis hor needed a fixture/tombstone recut and the machine was not capable of TCP. Then all you would have to do is move a Sub axis system that was attached to all your toolplanes and it would calculate the from to matrix. This would make it very easy to move parts from a machine with a 36" pallet to one with a 24" pallet for an example.

 

Jamey

X4

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Verndog Newbie

Verndog

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The incremental problem goes beyond 5axis. If you dont program your top of stock and z depth on pocket, contour and drill you can get hosed under certain conditions. If you program using WCS say from C/L on a 4 axis program and have to shift the zero point .010 (or any value)...when you translate the WCS to the new position for tooling difference...all Z's in absolute will retain their value and not move. Program = toast.

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SydwazShawn Newbie

SydwazShawn

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quote:
Well, tool detection won't solve this problem if the tool is getting pulled out when being cut and not detected until the part is done.

 

Just trying to help

I know you were just trying to help! smile.gif What happened was the tool broke one of the flutes and the cutting pressure pulled it out. I actually had this in a regular side lock holder and it was really tight when I pulled it out. No matter though, new machine will have Nikken milling chucks!

 

 

quote:
all Z's in absolute will retain their value and not move. Program = toast.

It took me 3 hours to fix it, going thru what was 245 opps. Its fixed but not without scrapping one more part. frown.gif

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Guest CNC Apps Guy 1

Guest CNC Apps Guy 1

Posted
Posted

HSK.... pfft, bs.gifrolleyes.gif

 

Inferior technology. biggrin.giftongue.gif

 

Try ICTM Man, you can drive a bus through HSK's bs.gif tolerances. tongue.gif

 

For example, the minimum gap on the drive keys for HSK is .15mm(0.0059"). On ICTM, .015mm(0.0006").

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Dave.L Newbie

Dave.L

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quote:
For example, the minimum gap on the drive keys for HSK is .15mm(0.0059"). On ICTM, .015mm(0.0006").

James, I looked at the site you posted and it seems as if the design intent here (the tighter key gap) is for turning applications (ie turning holders with this interface) and not an issue for milling.

 

I see this ICTM specification only being a benifit on mill turns, the turning process only and no benifit on milling centers that already use HSK.

 

It seems to be a holder orienation specification, again specific to orienting a turning insert.

 

EDIT: Major advantage turning, minor advantages for milling, EDIT before I get corrected biggrin.gif

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Guest CNC Apps Guy 1

Guest CNC Apps Guy 1

Posted
Posted

Sharp eye. biggrin.gif Matsuura uses the ICTM specification for the CUBLEX machines. Another builder uses BigPlus and the tolerance gap is even wider than HSK on the drive keys. eek.gif Whatever you do, do not stoop so low as to buy one of those. I just might have to hurl and think you guys have REALLY gone off the deep end. eek.gifbiggrin.giftongue.gif

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