To be or not to be?

[camguymtl]

Hi everybody, we are planning on making the move to MasterCam, so here is the big question: How would you compare MasterCam with let say a High end system like Pro/E or UG or any other. Anybody using 2 systems or MasterCam is enough?

Thanks for all your answers!!!

 

Camguymtl

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Well you've got to understand that first, with the High End systems you named, CAM is a rather small portion of what they do (as opposed to Mastercam where CAM is about 75% of what it does and is supposed to do), som comparing them in that aspect is liek comparing apples to oranges. Those are CAE (Computer Aided Engineering) packages, meant to be a total solution.

 

With that said, if you are not a Design house, there is really no reason to use them other than for native file manipulation. Mastercam has the ability to read NATIVE UG, CATIA and Pro/E files. UG's CAM strength lies in it's 5 axis tools but with Version 9. you'd be hard pressed to find something in UG that you could not accomplish in Mastercam. CATIA would be the same, and Pro/Man is not even in the same league CAM-wise as Mastercam, they can't even compare. I've seen it in "action" a few weeks ago and a word comes to mind - PATHETIC. I'll leave it at that.

 

Mastercam gives you some pretty powerful CAD tools though it is not a full featured CAD package (I will say though I have not even seen a part that I cannot model in Mastercam yet) but it gives you the programmer more than enough toos to do your job quickly and effectively. The Solids add-on is a MUST, this will save countless hours of modeling with minimal instruction. Solids is so easy to use and learn, I've never even taken a class and it is my favorite tool in my "toolbox".

 

Where I work, Engineering draws in AutoCAD. We recieve the Native AutoCAD files and begin to model and program the parts.

 

So if you're a design house, Pro/E, UG, CATIA, SolidWorks, Inventor, Solid Edge, etc... would peobably be a good idea but if you're strictly Manufacturing, It's probably a pretty fair wast of time energy, and money.

 

JM2C

[camguymtl]

Thanks for the answer James, what would be the typical learning curve for 3D Mfg? Any dificulties building post processors for MasterCam?

 

Camguymtl

[mold100]

I have a seat of pro manufacturing in my computer just taking up space, why????Because in order to be efficient at it you need some pro e skills, I have very little,and less patience when I want to cut,and

not waste any time it doesnt get any better than Mastercam,and their isnt a huge learning curve,weeks

of introductry schooling, or too many options and everything doesnt have to match within .000005.But dont get me wrong those systems are great for engineering.

 

What can Mastercam do that others cant:"show up and cut it!"

 

Mastercam does everything most CAM users need you can create geometry, modify geometry,

if you use moldplus you can easily extract geometry.

[Scott Bond]

Welcome to the forum Camguymtl

quote:

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what would be the typical learning curve for 3D Mfg?

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Everyone is a little differant, mostly because of where a guy is on the 3d mfg food chain when he(or she) starts.But if a guy has a mentor that is a total master standing right behind him ,he could make stuff on his own after a week.This would be the best "fast learner" that already knows what to do and just needs to learn how to ell Mastercam to do it . In my humble opinion, all of us are better off if we take the 18 week class to get started correctly. Some guys are doing pretty good near the end of the 18 weeks, and some may never get it .

But still if a had to make a guess,, it will take all of the class, and then about 3 years of solid seat time.

quote:

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( e Any dificulties building post processors for MasterCam?

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Yes there are some but Mastercam's new mighty Mc Master post for v9, has cured most post issues, and every dealer has a post guru on staff for the custom stuff.

[MACHINEMASTERG]

camguy welcome!! just wondering what cam system your moving from ??? before you see the light and purchase mastercam

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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what would be the typical learning curve for 3D Mfg?

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Well, sorry I can't give you a concrete answer. It depends on your prior experience Machining, prior CAD experience and prior CAM experience. If you have a firm grasp of the Cartesian Coordinate System, this helps trementously. Also, if you understand planes this helps tremendously as well. If you're a designer, just getting into Manufacturing, then it may be a bit tougher. Typically in the design phase manufacturing is not taken into consideration wholeheartedly so learning what's practical vs. what's possible takes some time. If you've been programming for a while with other systems, the hardest thing will be terminology. The software is very intuitive. Looking at the main menu, you face a few options, Analyze (pretty straight forward), Create (pretty straight forward), File (pretty straight forward), Modify (a bit less specific), Xform (a bit less specific), Delete (pretty straight forward), Screen (a bit less specific), Solids (pretty straight forward), Toolpaths (pretty straight forward), and NC Utils (a bit less specific). So the things that are a bit less specific, don't take long to pick up at all.

 

quote:

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Any dificulties building post processors for MasterCam?

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For me? No. For the majority of Programmers, probably. It takes a fair amount of understaning of Mastercam and how it works, basic Programming fundamentals(real coding not CNC Programming, i.e. C, C++, VB, etc...), the Post Processor Guide on CDROM and time.

 

HTH

 

[ 10-15-2002, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: James Meyette ]

[McRae]

Asking James what CAM system to use is like asking a fat guy where the best place to eat is!

 

Every CAM system will give you what you need (GCode) and the differences are in the way you get there. There are some excellent features that Pro/E has over Mastercam and vice versa. For example, if there are shortcomings with the tool paths inside of mastercam, a level of customization is available inside the post. If you want bulletproof design thru manufacturing with the most stable parametric CLData - Stick with something in the order of Catia, Pro/E or UG.

 

There are a few market lurkers for other specific applications but for decent value and return on investment - For the Hack and Bash (or Mom and Pop) Job Shop - stick with Mastercam. Some would say that the other systems have a snob value attached to them but this is just a specific enduser perspective. For the overall Enterprise wide Parametric Design, Testing, Validation, Approval, Manufacturing, Inspection - Mastercam is not that type of a product. If you just want to

quote:

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"Show up and cut it",

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then Mastercam is a useful and fantastic tool for this.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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Asking James what CAM system to use is like asking a fat guy where the best place to eat is!

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ROFL!!!!!!

 

That's awesome!

[camguymtl]

To answer some of your questions, I have been using SmartCam for 14 years and Pro/man for about 8 years. I have MasterCam demo V8 on my desk and the dealer on my tail. We have to find an alternative to the old SmartCam boy and Pro/man who is pretty heavy to handle for the average user. What I need is a package that can tackle 2D Mfg at lightning speed (Smartcam) and 3D Mfg with intelligence (3D planar roughing, re-roughing, surface milling, etc.) I have great interest in MasterCam, and will probably have V9 installed on a trial basis. My big problem is justification ($$$) and the turn around time (cutting chips). Some of the big Companies are pushing great discounts, and my boss likes that. So what would be the best phrase I could use to tell him to buy MasterCam?

Camguymtl

[McRae]

Buy it once or pay for it again, and again, and again... No Maintainance Fees, Upgrades are only 15% of the current value of the software - and are not manditory...

 

I ran SmartCAM for years as well and made the transition to MC no problem (Tutorial Book and I was cutting chips inside an hour - 2D Profiles). Gibbs, Esprit, Hypermill, wouldn't even look at em.

 

BTW I love Pro/Man but you really have to have your head screwed on tight to drive that one. On the other hand, my 2 year old son could run with Mastercam and make great parts! (Canadian labour laws prevent us from exploiting children for those who were concerned.)

[Trevor Bailey]

I have taught my now 10 year old son how to construct and program basic 2d shapes in Mastercam and do basic set ups on both HAAS and Fadals. If you have an open mind and a want to learn, you can achieve anything. If you are not going to be doing any really hard design stuff, Mastercam is the only solution. I too was a user of another software. To make that long story short, I have never looked back. If you do not want to pay a high-end cost for some great design features, check into VX Corporation. Their stuff is really good and very easy to use. Well, except for the 3 button mouse thing they have going. YYYUUUCCCCKKKKKKKK.

[MACHINEMASTERG]

we moved from smartcam to mcam ten years ago!! its seemless with your many years at this type of work you will be up and cutting in no time

[Scott Bond]

quote:

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So what would be the best phrase I could use to tell him to buy MasterCam?

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Watch

 

[ 10-15-2002, 06:25 PM: Message edited by: Scott Bond ]

[Michael Reynolds]

I teach (and use) both UG and MasterCAM at a community college. There are two issues here. Design and Manufacture. For the design side for SINGLE parts, I'd take MasterCam any day of the week. For designing assemblies, UG would be my pick (..."he respectfully said"..)

 

For Manufacturing (nc programming), MasterCAM SMOKES UG. It's (in my opinoin) as or MORE powerful than UG, and MUCH easier to learn. However, we just put in UGNX (V19), and I've got to say, UG has made major imporvements.

 

Oh ya, UG is also real, real expensive...

 

Hope that helps!

 

"So a skelaton walks into a bar and says 'I'll have a pitcher of beer and a mop'"..

 

Mike R.

[camguymtl]

Hi guys, thanks again for all the answers. This forum seem's like a nice place to be! We probably will setup a workstation with V9 and give it a try very soon.

Cheers!!

[P_Scott]

camguymtl,

 

One of the best arguments I can state for purchasing Mastercam is that you can make ANY part with it and you can do anything that SmartCAM could do and more. I also am an ex-SmartCAM user and at the time when Mastercam was still in V7, I asked tech support questions of our SmartCAM reseller. That reseller happened to be selling Mastercam as well because SmartCAM was no longer under development. Up until that point, I had thought that SmartCAM was THE BEST Cam product available. What I saw during the reseller's demonstration of a simple 2D Contour toolpath in Mastercam, dropped my jaw to the floor. I had never seen anything like it. That was from Version 7. It's now 3 years later, the reseller is my employer and Mastercam is on V9. Enough said. When you have someone demo Mastercam, have them do toolpath on one of YOUR parts. If you have any other CAM software demos, do the same. See how long they take to do it with the other software, IF they are able to do it at all. That alone shold be enough to convince the "higher ups" they need Mastercam. Good luck and let us know how things go.

[chico]

camguymtl,

 

I was a SC user form v4 - v11.1 from 2d to Freeform. Took a job at a company with MC and was programming and cutting 2d and 3d right away, no training needed. With your knowledge of SC you will be able to sit right down in front of MC and go. The tasks are the same, maybe worded different. I eventually went to multi-surface training, it parallelled Freeform.

 

AS far as training / learning curve goes. I sent 2 guys (1 no CNC expierience, 1 operator 10 years ago)to 2D training end of September and they have completed 5 jobs already with almost no assistance. I am happy as hell.

 

I use a 3D modeling software (Pro and SW)to design, and MC (with solids option) to cut, period. They each are great at what they do. The shop guys don't have to know how to design in 3D to make chips, and the learning curve on Pro? WOW!!! You got a few years to spare.

 

Dealer support for MC has been absolutely fantastic, posts are abundent. This site will be absolutely priceless for you. All these smart guys just itching to help 24/365. It is awesome.

 

Smartcam to Mastercam will be a snap with your existing SC knowledge.

 

Good luck,

George

[SLJ]

I used SmartCam Advanced 3-d v11.5? for 3 years and then a year and a half with Esprit 2000. At the time I thought SC was great, then they basically dropped the software. We bought Esprit( BIG MISTAKE) from the same reseller. He told us he had studied all available systems and this was the best. We found out later that it was just the best not already franchised in the area. I wouldn't recommend Esprit to my worst enemy.

I changed jobs about 15 months ago, We got Mastercam V8 then and V-9 now. I've done more with virtually no training with MC than I ever thought possible. No comparison to the old stuff.

Don't know Pro-e, but have watched my enginneer son clean house with it "for design"

[Philcott]

Hi,

 

My name is Phil and I have been Smartcam free for three years.

 

Seems like a lot of us are using this thread to exercise our S-cam demons. Will there ever come a time when our smartcam ghosts are forever out of our closets. Yes, but only time and devotion to a better system will being that about.

 

Phil

[Michael Reynolds]

Didn't smartcam get bought out by UG? Or was that surfcam. One of them anyway.

 

Mike R.

[kathy]

Smartcam (Point Control) was purchased by Camax, who was than swallowed up by SDRC in the late 1990's.

 

SDRC (Ideas) was bought out last year by EDS which offers UG and Solid Edge.

 

I still have my seat of Smartcam FreeForm loaded on my system; I still look at our archive Smartcam files from time to time. But I do transfer files to MAstercam for any rework.

 

Kathy

[Scott Bond]

Hi Kathy,

 

Nice report.

 

[ 10-16-2002, 08:19 PM: Message edited by: Scott Bond ]