O/T but i'm curious

[biss03]

WOW!! I sure am glad i decided to ask this question (i wasn't too sure if it were appropriate). We have a majority of people who agree but others who are not afraid to object. and everyone remained civil and respectful to others opinions and feelings. I wish there were forums in the news medias talking about things this way. unfortunately they are all vindictive against each other and nothing really gets accomplished.

I could state my feelings on the subject but they have already been stated in others posts.

James, i think you best conveyed my opinions with the exception of your feelings about being French. i too think they are a bunch of pansy's but i will never be ashamed of my heritage.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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James, i think you best conveyed my opinions with the exception of your feelings about being French.

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Unfortunately I cannot hide the fact I'm french. My last name pretty much gives it away, oh well. I looked into changing my name to my Grandfather's but it was a huge pain in the arse and with a wife and 3 kids, too big a pain. So I'll just have to suffer. It could be worse. My name could be Hussein .....

[TeccBoxx]

Well I guess I will add my few cents. I am surprised it took twelve years to finally go in and take Hussain out. It should have been done already. My only concern is North Korea and some of the outlining arab states. I just wish some countries would wake up and think what the world would be like if it wasn't for all the sacrifices we made to keep thier lifes safe.

 

Last but not least don't forget to have some Freedom Fries and not those crappy French Fries

[kathy]

War is never good, nor should it be entered into lightly. If we have to use force against Iraq, than we have to - but we should explore all alternatives.

It's the 'Cowboy' mentality - let's go in and kick some ***** that rattles my cage.

Look back through history at war - we always thought we could go in and be out by dinner time. No problem. Maybe this time we can go in, drop some bombs and be done with the least casulties.

 

Kathy

btw- I have someone over there very dear. So I hold my breath and pray.

[jeff]

quote:

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If we were to show the world EXACTLY what we know, this would compromise our intelligence gathering capabilities

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The whole world knows only what our government and military wants us to know.

Believe me,they know a whole lot more than they just "release" into the public media.

[Chris Rizzo]

quote:

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If we were to show the world EXACTLY what we know, this would compromise our intelligence gathering capabilities

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Why can't we even show enough measley evidence to get the world on our side??. .Russia, Germany, China, France, etc. The only countries that our with our program are the ones looking for handouts, in the form of U.S. aid. The other powers (Germany,China,Russia,etc.) which are economically stable and capable of their own intellignece gathering, have found no grounds for this war.

 

Why is it that the Average Joe American can somehow justify the grounds for war, but theentire rest of the world powers cannot?

 

Come on everyone, asking these questions and demanding answers intrinsically defines our freedom...blindly toeing the line our government line and swallowing what the media tells us does the a greater injustice to freedom than we are supposedly fighting.

SHOW THE WORLD LIGITIMATE PROOF, AND I'll BE THE FIRST ON BOARD!

[TeccBoxx]

CMR are you French "Just Kidding"

 

You bring up some good points but then again those are simple answers. However everyone that asks the questions you are are forgetting about one major question?

 

Why hasn't Iraq shown proof of the destruction of all of thier biological weapons that they said they had 12 years ago?

 

I also must say states like Iraq, Iran, North Korea and quite possibly Saudi Arabia have and are sponsoring terrorism. It just happens to be that Iraq has performed terror attacks against thier own people and neighboring countries.

 

War is never wanted by anyone in the right mind. However war is necessary to put insane political figures out of power before they do something that the whole world will regret. I would rather have war right now today before we see another day like 12/7 or 9/11.

[Slixmix]

Back to the original thread, living in the Bay Area is a little wiery. We are surrounded by some of the largest computer companies and systems in the world. Not to mention the Golden Gate. I wonder what type of defense systems we have surrounding our borders from lets say a missle being fired from sea. Are there Patriot missles protecting our country from any type of invasion? All in all I feel pretty safe. I'm going to go about everday life normally. For those in Israel, I hope you are all safe.

[Rekd™]

quote:

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Why can't we even show enough measley evidence to get the world on our side??.

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Honestly, I could care less what others think about what we're doing. If the US would have had that "who cares what you think" attitude 10 years ago we wouldn't be discussing this right now would we? Because that arse over there wouldn't be there.

 

I've also heard some talk about why the US sticks it's nose in other people's/country's business. I'll tell you why... because in the world we live in today, you are never more than 30 minutes away from massive attacks. Because of this, we have to police these "children" that are running around with the ability to do so much destruction. If we didn't, and just let these idiots run amuck, where would we be???

 

It's like saying we don't need police in our cities.

 

'Rekd teh Annoyed

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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The other powers (Germany,China,Russia,etc.) which are economically stable and capable of their own intellignece gathering, have found no grounds for this war.

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They have a lot of the same evidence we do. They just choose to either deny it "Don't confuse me with the facts!", don't have anywhere the intelligence gathering capability we do (which I believe), or don't care. I believe it's a combination of all three myself. First off, the French have a vested economic interest in the current regime and can't be relied upon to make good judgements. Second xxxx has Jaques Chirac (sp?) in his back pocket. They say bribery gets you everywhere... Since most European countries leaders are not corrupt (with the exception of France) the French just can't help themselves.

 

Russia; they are as bankrupt as you can get and still function. They are still reeling from the throes of Communism. It's going to take a generation or two for them to become stable, and able to keep their economy stable. They derive a great many benefits from having a relationship with Iraq such as getting oil at tremendous prices. I've heard grumblings of $8 to $12 per barrell. We're paying what, $30? Gee we can rely on them to make a sound judgement call as well. Germany, I would propose given their track record in the past (Starting or being involbed in the starting of 2 World Wars) would just rather stay out of it.

 

China, pffttttt. Their human rights violations are eggregious at best. You think they are going to throw stones at xxxx when they are guilty of nearly as many atrocities? I think not. Why on Earth Clinton would grant them "Most Favored Nation" status is beyond all reason.

 

JM2C

[Ed. R.]

Ya know,

 

I believe that it's not 'civilized' to fly

planes into buildings, and MURDER innocent

people.

 

It's not 'civilized' to GAS and POISON

innocent people.

 

Because of 9/11, I believe that the rules for

the United States have changed.

 

We needn't wait to be slautered, again, before

we get pissed. I am pissed.

 

Doesn't our troops having to wear chemical

suits tell anyone all they need to know about

Saddam?

 

Ya, I know, the liberals will say, "That's all

he has to protect him with from the U.S."

Well, go whistle with that argument.

 

We've started these ALERTS of different colors.

Doesn't that tell you all you need to know about

what's going on?

 

Going to the Airport, can't even see your

friends and relatives off anymore.

National Guard and police at public places.

Doesn't that tell you all you need to know?

 

Are we willing to continue giving up our

Liberties, just so we can "get along"

 

I don't want to get along, I want to do whatever

it takes to tell and show the world that you

don't mess with the United States. You can

bicker and fight with each other if you want,

but don't mess with us.

 

And for now it seems that going after and

getting these people is the only answer.

Talking at the U.N. won't get it done.

 

Why is Sadam leaving the Iraq an option?

Isn't he a mass MURDERER?

Isn't he the biggest destroyer of the

envirnment in the history of the world?

Why isn't Killing him and his ILK an option?

 

I really want to go on-and-on, but..........

 

I've lived in America when it was free, and

am willing to pay and sacrifice as necessary

to go back to the way we were before 9/11.

 

The rules have been changed, let's play by

their rules, for as long as it takes.

[Brendan P]

quote:

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Why on Earth Clinton would grant them "Most Favored Nation" status is beyond all reason.

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Maybe he too was getting his "machining work"

done there also!

[Rekd™]

China, lol. A certain company in San Diego, which I won't name, but it's initials are REMEC, sent some of it's HAAS machines to China recently... They had to drag them thru the streets with pullies and come-alongs to get them to the building, AFTER, that is, they literally dropped one off the truck!!! Oopsie..

 

'Rekd teh Laughing

 

[ 03-19-2003, 03:23 PM: Message edited by: Rekd ]

[Chris Rizzo]

quote:

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Because of this, we have to police these "children" that are running around with the ability to do so much destruction

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Who flew three of our airplanes into three of our national landmarks? Iraqis? NO. We cannot find anything to link Iraq to those terrorists...

However Bush has not/cannot dealt with the Saudi's, (of which all 19 hijackers were) Al Quada, Palestenians (spelling) or even simply Bin Laden, . Our actions in the midddle east are only strengthening the terrorist sentiments towards the U.S., of which no amount of military "policing" could possible ever eradicate or contain. This is not like containing Germany during WWII, terror is a mindset and determination that force will only make stronger. We are setting ourselves up for a saga bigger than we can imagine....

[Trevor Bailey]

CMR - WHO THE HELL ARE YOU? Do you live in the US? It sounds to me as if you are saying simply to anyone who wants to screw with the US that is is OK. If we all have your midset, we should just turn the other shoulder and HOPE it all will go away.

 

What a jerk@ff!!!!

 

You are probably one of teh same type of people that support people coming to our country, going to our kids schools and bitching that we, AMERICAN'S, pray to the one and only GOD. Because of their bitching, we, AMERICAN'S now can not pray, but we can however step aside while these other xxxx can study their religion

 

As I said before, the US should shut the door on everyone that is not an American or bording neighbor. Shoot anyone that crosses our border univited and deport all protestors to the middle east. That is the obvious thing to me, since the protestors are sooooo much smarter than the AVERAGE American.

 

OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rekd™]

cmr,

 

You want to borrow $5.00?? I know where you can get a good deal on a clue.

 

You were the kid on TV displaying the sign "Bush, how many children did you kill today?", when that terrorist killed all those children on that bus, aren't you...?

 

The world is not safe. Period. And if the US is the only country capable of protecting the freedome and safety of itself and others, then so be it. I'm all for REMOVING any and all who oppose US.

 

'Rekd teh Enforcer

[ScottyB]

When you boil it down to the basics, I believe this is a war of the GOOD GUYS vs. the bad guy.

As long as I know that I am one of the good guys I will support this war and the troops fighting it.

 

It is because of our grandparents that we are free and it will be because of us that our grandchildren will be free.

 

God Bless the America.

[Chris Rizzo]

quote:

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OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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You guys sure speak like true Americans! Attempting to squelch my free speech, just because I don't prescribe to your "American" beliefs? Your attitudes and ethnocentrism do more harm to our freedoms than my raising valid questions certainly does.

Our country is founded upon freedom, right? QUOTE]As I said before, the US should shut the door on everyone that is not an American or bording neighbor. Shoot anyone that crosses our border univited and deport all protestors to the middle east Please show me thatamendment to the constitution. Your responses to this "discussion" and attitude is indicative of this situation as a whole. How come y'all can't see that those ways of dealing with problems is more un-American than any thing any of the protesters are doing? Where does your[/] rational fit in the charter for our beautiful country? It is COMPLETLY opposite to it....

 

For those who have rationally questioned me in this forum, I applaud you for your true Patriotism. As for you last two, your on your way to starting your own dictatorship....

[Chris Rizzo]

sorry for the formatting errors, but my "unconventional" browser, Opera 7 beta, Sometimes does'nt toe the party line either, Microsoft's!

[McRae]

quote:

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The world is not safe. Period. And if the US is the only country capable of protecting the freedome and safety of itself and others, then so be it. I'm all for REMOVING any and all who oppose US.

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Very Powerfull statement. I have no comment on this one - you speak for yourself loud and clear. Is this the opinion of an entire nation? One question to ask yourself is when did your god - or the to whom ever we as a planet answer to - appoint the United States of America the protector of freedom and justice? Currently there is no other society that is capable of wielding the destructive power, second only to god himself, that your country has created in the name of freedom. I am not defending the evil that has occured in the past nor am I an advocate for ruthlessness in a Leader like Saddam, I am thinking only of the Families that are living under the hell that now exists in Iraq (and other countries) and need liberation. Proceed and help them on that basis - not on the one quoted above. Rekd, I hope you are not as serious as your statement indicates. Trevor Baily also has me concerned, and I have given up all hope that James will see his way back.

 

When such statements are made and what I see here in this thread is more of a racial attitude than one of fact. It is a broad paint brush that paints all outsiders as enimies.

 

The French are taking quite a beating - How many orders for Airbus are going to be cancelled over this one? How many people at breakfast buffets are going to picket and throw down slices of French Toast? Free speach is taking a beating in the US at the expense of patriotism and supporting the troops. The slippery slope is already causing us to slide...

 

I once made this as a casual comment and now I believe in it more every day - Canada is the evolution of American Society. We have found a middle ground and relitive peace in a pluralistic society. Welcomed are those that are different and can contribute in a positive way. Sure I can already read your minds - that we owe our secutity to the United States and that your investment in the largest stick created the oasis of harmony that we enjoy. Save it - remember 1812? Of coarse not - History is written by the victor and because your camapin to invaid Canada failed, you Americans never even knew about it. We earned our place here and will continue to hold our values dear, my only point is to help you remember yours - with power comes responsibility, don't make hasty decisions in anger. Think about everything you do and say, there will be a tomorrow when things are done and we will still be neighbours - even though the technology exists to eliminate entire cultures and exterminate entire races.

 

As a manufacturing community, we here can all attest that the best methods are found with the input of many ideas - some may be contrary - but they are refined and contribute to our overall success. I like to think of this as Endmill Diplomacy.

[Rekd™]

quote:

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when did your god - or the to whom ever we as a planet answer to - appoint the United States of America the protector of freedom and justice?

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On Sept 11, why?

 

Does that bother you?

 

Lemme put it to you this way... If someone tried to come into my house and hurt my family, I would kill them. No questions asked. That's exactally what happened on 9/11, only on a grander scale.

 

Now, let me ask you a very simple question.. What would you do if someone came into YOUR house and killed YOUR family?

 

A. Call the police?

B. Hunt them down and kill them?

C. Sit by and do nothing?

D. A and B

 

If you answered C, you're pitiful.

If you answered A, B or D, then you're doing what the US is doing.

 

Get the picture?

 

I used to have an issue with US "Policing" the world, but not any more. The world NEEDS police. And like I said, if we're the only ones capable and/or WILLING to do it, then so be it.

 

So many people still think the world is this huge place where they're hidden from the evils of mankind on other parts of the world. Well guess what... It's time to wake up and smell the diaper, cuz it's getting smaller and smaller.

 

'Rekd teh Constable

 

[ 03-19-2003, 05:36 PM: Message edited by: Rekd ]

[Rick Damiani]

quote:

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North Korea is brazenly strutting it's nuclear capabilities, openly saying that within 1 year it will be fully capable of launching a nuclear attack.

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North Korea launched it's first (and, to my knowledge, only) satalite in 1998. It was launched using a three-stage launch vehicle - the same kind of launch vehicle they would need to launch sub-orbital ICBMs. If I understand it correctly, thier known launch vehicles have range sufficent to at least hit the west coast of the US, and possibly any target in North America. They have enough spent fuel rods to begin produciton of plutonium immideatly, and (from what I understand) re-processing facilities sufficent to generate enough plutonium for one bomb every month.

 

The leadership of North Korea has demonstrated, time and time again, that they are dangerously insane and are prone to stupidly provocative acts calculated to disturb and agitate the countries around them.

 

The US military, after years of cuts and force reductions, is unable to fight more than one major conflict at a time. This is, and has been, public knowledge since the '80s.

 

My fear is that once the US seems to be pre-occupied in Iraq, North Korea will see this as their only opportunity to take bold (or idiodic, you pays your money and you choses your frame of reference) action, secure in the knowledge that the US will be unable to respond effectively. Further, Bush's action in dealing with one member of the 'Axis of Evil' will be taken by North Korea as a precursor to the treatment they can expect from the same administration in the future.

 

Saddam is a very bad man. Iraq is a rouge nation that needs to be brought under control. I do not dispute this. Nevertheless, I cannot help but feel that the course of action the Bush adminsitration has seemingly committed us to spells near-certan doom for South Korea, with the added 'benifit' of a new round of nuke proliferaiton in East Asia.

 

Another thing to consider is how the US will deal with nuke-capible states in the future. Right now we cut off relations with countries that violate the non-proliferation treaty. If we don't take action to curb North Korea while bombing the hell out of Iraq, we send the message that nuke programs developed in secret are OK. That we will be forceful if we catch 'em during the build-up, but will be sucussfully detered from action if they manage to get 'em finished before we find out. Imagine how wonderful a world we will then live in.

[Brendan P]

Rekd,

Obviously there are some stupid people in the world who just don't understand that there are fanatics who want to KILL us.

They are probably the same people who still think O.J. is innocent.(because he wasn't proved

guilty)!

[Trevor Bailey]

Andrew,

 

In all honesty, I would love to see Bush pull back our entire military. He should then put them on our borders and forget about everyone else's problems. This is the thing that most makes me angry. Whether the US helps or does not help another in need, there is never a middle ground for us, Americans. If we don't help, then we are ridiculed for not being the mediator. If we do help, then we are the arrogant bullies on the block.

 

Living on the other side of the northern border, you don't and will not understand the anguish I and a few other million American's feel and you never will. I say so what. I won't lose sleep over it. What I will lose sleep over is when an immigrant from another country comes in and gets better health care than I have. Or my kids are told they can't say the Pledge Of Alligance because it offends said immigrant.

 

To CMR. You reference to the Constitution. Although it is what many American's say our country is ruled by, do you really understand that it was written a long, long time ago. Times were different. Old laws are being "updated" constantly. I believe our constitution should be also. I have no personal hate towards you. Just take a moment and put yourself in the shoes of our, or at least my fore-fathers, and express your beliefs. I am not trying to make a joke here. Actually do it and then understand that at that time, if you would have told another soldier that just maybe 9-11 was our fault, you would be beheaded!!!! As far as being racist, PLEASE. You sound like Opra Winfry(SP) now. Come up with something better than that.

 

[ 03-19-2003, 06:04 PM: Message edited by: Trevor Bailey ]

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

I knew it was only a matter of time before some idiot played the race card. Puuuuuuuuuulllllllleeeeeeeeeeezzzzzzz! GMAFB!!!!!