Housekeeping Philosophy

[Nominal]

Whats the general concensus as far as saving programs? Do you save your nci files in the hopes of reposting at some time in the future and toss out your .nc files? Do you save your .nc files and in the future if you need to run the same job again do you try and repost the original nci file and hope it comes out with the same mods that were made on the floor? Do you just save your nc files and modify them if you need to run them on a different control then the one it was originally posted for? Do you let people make changes out in the shop and then save the altered programs? If you get a repeat order how do you know whatever it was that you saved is up to the correct revision and perhaps purchase order instructions? Thanks in advance for your input.

[Toolfab]

I save the .nc, and the .nci. Our operators are all very skilled and allowed to change the .nc file. We do not have push button operators. once the job is done they download the edited version of the program to the DNC writing over the origanal prog. That way the next time the job comes though all the edits are there and you get the same part you made last time.

 

I save the original .nc & .nci as a COVER YOUR A$$ move. If they "miss"edit the program and try to blame me, I got proof, . These I save locally on my harddrive, and the machine copy is saved on the network and backed up EVERY NIGHT to prevent any loses.

 

HTH

[Nominal]

The only question then is what you do when you need to run the old program on a different machine. Do you modify the saved .nc file that has all the shops modifications, by hand, or do you try and repost from the nci file knowing its not the same as the saved nc file?

[Rekd™]

With the awsome posting abilities in MC, I very rarely find it necessary any more to save .NC files. I only save the .NC files if there is a change I cannot accomplish inside MC, which is very rare.

 

If any changes are made to the .NC files on the machine, the same changes are made to the .MC9 file. This ensures an updated file coming from MC if you need to run the same program on a different machine, or if you lose or destroy the existing .NC file.

 

'Rekd teh Efficient

 

[ 03-24-2003, 10:44 AM: Message edited by: Rekd ]

[Nominal]

redk,

 

So people in the shop modify your .nc files and then they somehow are letting you know exactly what all the changes are that they have made, and its up to you somehow to go back into mastercam and mess with it until your posted output resembles the edited nc file from the shop?

[Toolfab]

Fortunatly for me, all of our machines are the same. So the changes made on one machine will work just fine on all the machines.

 

Responding to Rekd, we are a cutting tool job shop. We have thousands and thousands of prog's, and if I had to repost from the .nci file everytime a job repeated I wouldn't have any time to hang out in here....lmao

 

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

We don't even generate NCI files. We just save the NC files and the MC* files.

[Toolfab]

But if you don't save the .nci file, what happens when you go back to edit a job? Arent the toolpaths linked to the nci file?

[Nominal]

The nci can be embedded in the mc file now.

[Nominal]

James,

You had said. We don't even generate NCI files. We just save the NC files and the MC* files.

 

My question(s) to you is/are....

 

Do people modify programs at the control?

Do you save such modified programs?

Do you try to catch up your mc file so that it would repost such modified output?

If the answer to #3 is no.. what do you do when you have to run the same job on a different machine?

[ksoufi]

Hi to all

 

The problem of handling many versions of documents and keep history of modification is common to other fields (CAD, CAE, ..).

 

I woold know how many people in this forum are using a PDM or PLM system to handle files and project?

[Rekd™]

quote:

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So people in the shop modify your .nc files and then they somehow are letting you know exactly what all the changes are that they have made,

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Correct. But like I said, the files rarely need to be modified. You can incorporate a sheet with the traveler for NC changes made by the operator, then update the .MC9 files.

 

quote:

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We have thousands and thousands of prog's, and if I had to repost from the .nci file everytime a job repeated I wouldn't have any time to hang out in here....lmao

---

Also correct, that would NOT be good!

 

But I do think it's a good idea to have the .NC file match the .MC9 file as close as possible, just in case you need to re-post it for what ever reason.

 

I've worked in a shop with 35+ machines with 3 different controllers. They were CONSTANTLY making edits on the floor, not saving the NC files, and not letting me, (the programmer), know what changes were made, then wondering why the setups on re-run jobs was so high. Very frustrating.

 

'Rekd teh Given Up On Stupidity

[Trevor Bailey]

I save all files to a particular project in one folder, ie..... .MC9, NC, Set-up sheet, .NCI if using a set sheet from MC.

 

Pretty easy.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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Q. Do people modify programs at the control?

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A. Yes.

 

quote:

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Q. Do you save such modified programs?

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A. No.

 

quote:

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Q.Do you try to catch up your mc file so that it would repost such modified output?

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A. Yes.

 

We try not save the programs at a the control in an effort to encourage the setup people to report back to the programmers with their issues,problems, etc... so that we keep the auditors happy and to keep only the most recent revisions out on the shop floor.

 

Toolpaths are embedded in the MC* file as was stated earlier. NCI = Old School. Don't need it unless you're doing some 5 axis stuff.

 

HTH

[stonker]

Its probably my lack of experience in Mastercam but my programs are not as clean as I would like them. My Mastercam programs have many wasted moves I would not have done if I manually programed it. Editing is done on the floor and the new NC file is backed up and used the next time. We save the file with part# and rev# in the name(ex 12345-REV-A-OP1.NC). Program differences between our machines are very slight and require little time to change over. Using G10 lines my work offsets and cuttercomps are retained from last runs and make repeat setups quicker.

[CAM-mando]

We use a customer/partnumber/machine subdirrectory structure (yeah lots and lots of subdirrectories) located on our company file server. We have 3 seats of MC, 1 in engineering and 2 on shop floor all are networked and act as download points in the shop. Mill programming is done 50/50 Shop Lead/Programmer (Me). Most Wire EDM programming is done by the Machinist who operates the EDM. I will often provide him with MC9 files containing the layout or nesting since this often coordinates with other operation / machines.

 

Our .NC is the "master". Since there could be several hands in a MC9 file it becomes difficult to show document and data "control" as required by the quality systems we must work under. Changes to the .NC are noted and uploaded to replace the original. A rev is noted in the filenaming convention and in the comments in the header.

 

We do not save or control text .nci files anymore.

 

We try to keep the mc9 up to date, but honestly that doesnt always happen.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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Our .NC is the "master".

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We considered that but our PC's are "secure" and the shop floor environment is not so the companies that audit us preferred ythe current method.

[Nominal]

Thanks to everyone on thier input. I guess there are two basic schools of thought out there.

1. Don't save .nc files and try and keep mc/nci files up to speed with what changes were made at the control. The reasoning being that one can repost the jobs in the future, and there is some additional software control.

2. Save the nc files, acknowledging the fact that people at the machines have made edits. The reasoning being that people don't have time to chase after jobs that have already been shipped and make modifications to thier mc files. Most people in this situation either have all the same controls, or the edits to change from the posted output to that of another control are minor and take little time.

 

Even though I see the benefit of #1 here's where I'm at with that method. The last guy we had doing programming was a method #1 person. But he was also a V6 person that had so much crap in his posts that he was unwilling to switch over to later versions (even though we had purchased them all through and including V9). When he left and I took over, I was faced with the challenge of making the switch to V9. So I drew the line in the sand and from that point forward I use V9 exclusively. Thats ok but the last couple thousand jobs that were done here are in V6. So if I have run and old job, I'm forced to go back to V6 and repost the old crap thru the old crappy posts. It would have been much less cumbersome for me to have had the .nc files and made whatever edits were nessesary to run them on different controls. Now I have to keep V6 alive till the end of time, unless I want to totally reprogram thousands of jobs in V9. The other problems I see with method #1 is that in reality the programs really don't get updated 100% of the time no matter how good the individuals intentions may have been. Thats just a fact of working at places where things are hopping and dozens of jobs are cycling through equipment on a weekly basis. Unless you're so overstaffed, or work is so slow, or you are an incredibly efficient person that doesn't forget a single thing, I don't see how its possible to keep up with the new work, while beating and bashing jobs which may already have been shipped, ( and you may not ever get another order for ). As far as SQA is concerned: When a program gets sent back in from the shop its creation date/time is set by windows. If at that time you open some sort of database, and log the nc files into it, you can record that date. From that point on, file creation or modification dates should match whats in the dbase. If it doesn't, you know someone has modified a program without going through the procedure that logs such changes into the dbase. Then you can always go back to your incremental nightly backups and compare diffences. Instances of this should be rare anyway, but the point is you can maintain the nc files just as easily if not more so. IMHO. This in not to say I disagree with the method #1 people. I just wish I had the time to be that anal.

[jeff]

For every customer we have,I have a folder for.

In that folder I have 3 sub folders: mc9 files,lathe programs,mill programs.

Under the lathe and mill programs I have sub folders like: Okuma,Fanuc and Yasnac.

Seems like alot to keep track of,but it really helps keeps things organized.

 

When an operator makes a change to one of my programs,or writes their own,I will download and save it,unless it's a simple program like machining soft jaws or a simple bolt circle.

I try to write all of the mill programs that I can since the conversational controls on the lathes can handle most of the programs there.

 

I never use .nci since I have no clue what use they serve.

Just the .Mc9 and .NC files are saved in their respective folders.

[kathy]

We use method #1 here - The Mastercam model is the driver. The .nc asscii file is a product of the controlled model. Does it make it harder for the offline programmer(s)? - you bet. (That is why we can be grumpy at times...) One good thing is that I don't have to play keep-up on old stuff; everything here for the last 12 years has been controlled this wasy.

I also try (very hard)to program to how the guys on the machine want to run the parts, and have tried to standardize a lot of parts.

This approach keeps us in compliance with our customer's requirements.

 

Kathy

[Rekd™]

quote:

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but the point is you can maintain the nc files just as easily if not more so

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I agree with most of your reasoning, I have been down both paths. The reason I rely so much on the MC file is because if you need to make a major change due to Revision or anything else, you would otherwise be forced to make the changes into the .nc file, or repost and remake all the changes originally made in the .nc file. (do you remember what those changes were?)

 

Like I said, with Mastercam, I rarely have to make changes to my .nc files, (almost all running 4th axis,). I guess my point is, it's up to the programmer to ensure quality programs from the beginning. That way, any rev changes, procedure changes, lost/destroyed .nc files or even a new similar part will be a breeze to modify and re-post.

 

'Rekd teh Anal Retentive Programmer

 

[ 03-25-2003, 12:16 PM: Message edited by: Rekd ]

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Hey Nominal,

 

Not all is lost. CHeck this out. COnvert your GE3 files to MC9 files. then go into the Operations Manager and add/import the applicable NCI files and Post. Everything is nice and tidy though you will not have associativity you'll be able to maintain your stuff in one location. Perhaps this may be an option for you.

 

HTH

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Oh, one more thing. It's not a matter of being anal, it's about following the procedures. We have to answer not only to our customers but to the FAA so we need to keep things relatively tidy and controlled. Sure we don't get everything back to the Mastercam file but usually after the second run on something we've got it because the setup guy will come in and bitch "hey why didn't you chang this...?" and we'll oblige them on the spot usually. It's always something liek a speed/feed.depth of cut/width of cut issue anyway.

 

JM2C

[cadcam]

I to perfer to keep the MC file up to fate that is alwas my master.

that way I can post for any control.

If an operator makes a change I want to know to update the file.

 

this also helps if for some reason the customer makes a change at the next run.

[kkominiarek]

We save the nc and mc9 files.....we don't bother with the nci file.

 

 

good luck