Mikron-Matsurra exp?

[mold100]

My new job I will be responsible for programming a year and half old 32,000 rpm mikron and 2 matsurras(sp?) they are 10-13 years old.I am curious of any post issues or known problems with

any other MC users.They currently use surfcam until I get there they will be willing to try an evaluation of MC.

 

Corey teh Just fer me

 

Also I will be learning Solidworks and lathe pgming okuma crown and another bigger lathe with live tooling.

 

They say if you mill level 3 then lathe shouldnt be an issue-any input on that one?

 

Solidworks-I like what I see, Anyone likesdislikes?

 

Thanks in advance, I am just doing my homework before the test.

[kccadcam]

Let me know what models of Matsuura's they are.

I've been programming and running them for 11 years now. Can't say anything bad except for 1 old one we have with a Yasnac MX1 control.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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Yasnac

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EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!

[mold100]

one is a RA IIIF With a pallet changer, and the other is an MC 800V.

[kccadcam]

Like these?

http://www.cvm-inc.com/004e_facilities_mac...atsuurara3.html

 

http://www.cvm-inc.com/004e_facilities_mac...suura5axis.html

[mold100]

Yep, just by looking I would say your 800 is newer but thats them. How do they compare to the other makes FADAL,Haas and say Hurco?

[kccadcam]

Not even in the same league.

Matsuura's are up with Mori Seki's and the like.

 

Right James?

 

[ 06-12-2003, 02:40 PM: Message edited by: Kevin Clark, Central Valley Machine ]

[mold100]

Thats what I want to hear, I cant wait to get cutting.They are well maintained and not beaten on.

[McRae]

quote:

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There are 10 kinds of people in the world - Those who understand binary and those who don't.

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Clever, very clever. My brother inlaw has ditial personallity. Unfortunatly, he's all 0000000's

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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Matsuura's are up with Mori Seki's and the like.

 

Right James?

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Yep! They do make nice machines.

[Nominal]

Matsuura's with the yaznaks ( fanuc clone ) are easy. As far as the pallet machine, we had one in here for a couple of months. The only problem was we didn't have the types of jobs that justified all the extra pallet change time and the added bs that goes along with making sure the correct pallet is in front of the spindle for the offsets your using etc. For the money we got for that used piece of equipment we were able to buy 2 brand new johnsfords with fanuc Oi controls. Unless your load and unload time is significant palletized is not the way to go. The biggest concern with the old matsuuras is the lack of and kind of standard fixture offsetting. Since you may be using preset positioning G92 you might want to throw some code similar to this in the beginning of your programs....

/G91G46X0.D98

/G91G46Y0.D99

/G92X0.0Y0.0Z0.0

When you get there you'll know why. I think I still have a post for the RAIIIF. Somebody else wrote it ( so don't blame me ) but it did have some ok logic in it that produced code that would ensure you were using the pallet you were planning on.

[Keith Graydon]

quote:

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They say if you mill level 3 then lathe shouldnt be an issue-any input on that one?

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Mwhahahahahahahahahahahahahhaha.

 

Corey. i think they got you on that on.

 

Toolpathing for lathe is MUCH different than in Mill. Mostly due to the great differences between lathe tooling (and set-up) vs. Milling.

 

Understand the options and parameters and the lathe module is very powerful.

 

-keith

[kccadcam]

quote:

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The biggest concern with the old matsuuras is the lack of and kind of standard fixture offsetting.

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I don't understand, Our's has a program that strictly runs the pallet change. You set parameters in the machine that tell it which program goes with which pallet. We use G54 J1 thru 9,G55 J1 thru 9,etc. etc. then we call the pallet change as a sub and have NEVER had a problem.

[Rick Damiani]

quote:

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They say if you mill level 3 then lathe shouldnt be an issue-any input on that one?

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The drawing won't be much of an issue. The toolpaths themselvs, though, are very different. Lathe is a bit more automated than Mill is, but that automation can and will confuse the hell out of you if you are used to mill.

 

A couple suggusitons for you while learning lathe:

 

Setting up the job:

 

1) Always set up your stock.

2) And the chuck (if you are using one).

3) Use reference points.

 

Toolpaths:

1) Pay attention to any collision warnings you get.

2) Pay very close attention to lead-in and lead-out vectors. Not setting them correctly is the most common cause for #1.

3) Pay very close attention to where you put the turret before a tool change.

4) With a mill, retracting along Z is almost always safe. There is no retract axis that is almost always safe on a lathe.

[chris m]

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You set parameters in the machine that tell it which program goes with which pallet. We use G54 J1 thru 9,G55 J1 thru 9,etc. etc. then we call the pallet change as a sub and have NEVER had a problem

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+1 on that

 

We have a Matsuura RAII with a Yasnac MX3 [the machine is around a 1990] and we have the same setup as Kevin does. The only probs we've had with the pallet changer is that the gap-check never worked right so the machine would alarm every pallet change saying the pallet wasn't seated. We shut it off so the machine doesn't check anymore and it works fine.

 

We do a lot of turning, along with philcott, Andrew McRae, Keith G, Noel S, Jeff M, Brent Wilkerson, and some other guys out here so if you run into trouble just give us a call.

 

I also have 9 Okuma lathes with 3 different controls, so if you hit a snag lat me know.

 

C

 

[ 06-13-2003, 08:46 AM: Message edited by: chris m ]

[Jimmy Wakeford from Barefoot CNC]

Corey,

 

Will you be probing on the horizontals? Posts wont be a problem, but let me now about the probing cycles before hand so I have right stuff in probe cycles.

 

32,000 rpm? Sounds great.

 

Jimmy

[mold100]

Jimmy I think there is probing in the mikron, I am positive that there is I remember seeing it.All the mills are verticals.Thjanks to everyone for the feed back.I may need some more info later.

[Lucky]

Mold100,

 

What model Mikron do you have? We are running a VCP600 w/ Heidenhain TNC430 control and 42,000 rpm spindle. We modified the mpheid.pst to correct some problems. You will like the Mikron.

 

Good Luck

[kccadcam]

32,000 RPM -- 42,000 RPM

Man, you guys are making me drool all over my computer!!!!

 

I top out at 15,000 RPM and really want MORE!!!

 

 

What kind of tooling are you using on these?

How about shrink-fit?

Balancers?

[mold100]

Well week one down it was busy took no time at all to jump in into the matts, This week I will tackle the Mikron (hsm700) 42,000. I had to use surfcam last week, I was already familar with it and it blows especially 2001, So hopefully this week Trevor B. and Jimmy W. I will be getting a hold of Barefoot.

[Jimmy Wakeford from Barefoot CNC]

Corey,

 

First close your eyes imagine it, then open them and...say, "@#%^ tool melted!"

 

Think trochordial. Any thoughts Lucky? You th' high speed guru.

 

Jimmy

 

[ 06-23-2003, 12:35 AM: Message edited by: Jimmy Wakeford, from Barefoot CNC ]

[Trevor Bailey]

Go get 'em Corey. Do they still make smurfcam ?

 

42K rpm's. OHHHH the possibilites. That macines sounds awesome.

[Lucky]

Jimmy,

 

We've done some cool things with trochoidal pocketing. Very fast metal removal technique with excellent tool life. We've had some instances of the tool pulling out. Very Bad! We are using Schaublin collets. I think we may need to use shrink fit holders to grip the tools securely or perhaps different tool geometry to reduce these axial forces on the tool.

 

Our spindle is the same as Mold100's (42k) but his machine is a step up from ours. Our machine will acelerate at 0.6 g's, while is machine will accelerate at a full g! Don't bother holding your finger over the feed hold button - you're not fast enough. Make sure the program is right, make sure your post is 100%, hit cycle start and walk away.

[Lucky]

Kevin,

 

We primarily use Frasia cutting tools on the Mikron for hard die milling. Outlasts others such as SGS and Rob Jack by a factor of 1.5 to 2. We use Fraisa's ToolCare program. They provide a Lista tool cabinet with about $5,000 of tool inventory at no charge. We re-stock monthly and only pay for the tools we consume. We have also had good success with Jabro tools. They are imported from the Netherlands by Tesco Technology in Virginia. The Jabro tools are more expensive and don't last quite as long but their product line is more extensive. We use them for diameters and flute lengths Fraisa cannot provide.

 

As far as tool holders go, we use Schaublin HSK40 collet holders for everything. They are very accurate and are balanced perfectly. They do not provide enough grip for aggressive trochoidal milling. I think shrink fit will be required.

[JohnA]

We have 3 Matsuuras with Yasnac controls and the biggest issue I've come across is that they won't enter cutter comp on an arc nor will they cancel on an arc like the Haas' and Fadals in our shop will. The issue is easily solved, figuring out what the problem is is the part that took awhile for me. "Incompatible G Code" was the message but I had never worked on a machine that wouldn't arc in to CC so I thought they all would.

Anyway, that's the only thing I can think of.

 

John