Just wondering...

[brandon b]

How many of you programmers have never had a job on the shop floor? I don't see how someone can be a programmer yet has never touched a cnc machine. I would have been totally lost programming if I hadn't started in the shop first.

[The_kid]

this would be a near impossibility. I am a firm believer that you should spend at least 2 years running manual equipment so that you can learn how to do set ups, listen for tool wear and in general get the idea of how things are supposed to work. I agree I don't see how someone could be a "successful" programmer.

[gcode]

I know a world class Catia programmer who never ran a machine in his life.

He is an exceptional individual though.

He has a PHD in physics, got bored with it and found the world of CAD/CAM

much more interesting (and lucrative)

[Zoffen]

I ran/programmed a router for 2 years before moving onto my current job where i program/design full time.

 

I had little real production metal cutting experience, but i could make the machine do anything i wanted, just takes a while to figure out if you wanted it to do that!

 

I would be nowhere near where i am today without all the help of everyone at our shop giving me feedback from the very beginning.

 

I agree wholeheartedly, you need to run what you program.

[Thee Starry™]

Floor guy for years, manual mill and lathes, then to CNC mills, lathes, screw machines, routers and robots, then to programming the aforementioned then to service tech, back to programming and now an AE.

 

I have met two programmers with no shop floor experience, one was useless while the other was pretty good. Much like the guy Gcode mentioned, he was a gifted human and an exception to the rule. After grammin for a number of years he took a year to work on the floor as an operator and then set-up guy, and now is back to grammin.

[Newbeeee™]

I think it's all to do with aptitude and attitude - if you want to excel with your chosen career, then observe and listen to every thing.

Youtube is your friend and google - there's not much you can't learn about in a short time frame nowadays.

So you don't need to be cnc or machining hands on before having the office job, but it will make you better imo.

It goes for design as well - if you have made parts it will make you a better cad jockey. Even to the extent that when you lay out a turned part on a sheet, big end is to the left as that's how you'll more than likely make it. As well as hole/shaft basis. If you've tried to make bits, you'll realise this is a great concept.

 

Anyway, a 7 year old can program - I read it here 1st...

[THEE THAINZ™]

I spent many a year on the floor, started as saw guy and went fron there. I have worked with 1 young man with no machining experience you talked his way into being a programmer. Parts that could have been made in 2 ops were done in 4 never had a clue as to what was or how to figure SFM or IPM. during the time he was a programmer life was miserable as a set up person until I started taking his programs and breaking them into pieces and sub them together to make them closer to what they should be and adjusting them until they ran better (livable). How about the guys today that come from school to the floor and claim to know all and do all but have no clue about how to set up read code adjust code report back to the programmer on changes or even understand what the programmer is trying to explain.

[brandon b]

Ya I don't get how you can program a part with no set up experience. How would you know how to hold anything

[Guyinthedesert]

I don't see it anymore, but many many years ago I worked in a huge shop where they had a department for everything. Most of the people in the programming department were right out of Jr College and had never even walked through a shop before. Most of the first run programs were downright dangerous. All were comical, at best. MY favorite was always trying to plunge straight into a pocket in Z with an 8" face mill.

[Newbeeee™]

I don't see it anymore, but many many years ago I worked in a huge shop where they had a department for everything. Most of the people in the programming department were right out of Jr College and had never even walked through a shop before. Most of the first run programs were downright dangerous. All were comical, at best. MY favorite was always trying to plunge straight into a pocket in Z with an 8" face mill.

Are they still in business?

[Thee Starry™]

Are they still in business?

 

ROR!!!!

[Newbeeee™]

ROR!!!!

English straight faced sarcastic humour

But they probably still are...

[Guyinthedesert]

English straight faced sarcastic humour

But they probably still are...

 

I don't want to name names, but

An aerospace company that used to be based out of Burbank. I think they are still around.

[Thee Starry™]

English straight faced sarcastic humour

 

Ya, the Brits always had a talent for dry humour............... and biscuits

 

[Mick]

I did a machining apprenticeship, during which I covered milling, turning, line boring, grinding, tool and cutter grinding, line inspection and non destructive testing. In my final year, I moved onto the CNC lathes. I spent the first 18 months just operating, and moved onto programming. Those were Okuma OSP2200L controls. Paper tape even (remember those gcode? ). Went from there onto the Okuma 5VA mill (OSP5000M control). I didn't touch a CAM system until about ten years later. Nowadays, it is 2, 3, 4 and 5 axis

 

IMHO, it is pretty much a necessity to have shop floor experience to be a programmer. I wouldn't even consider taking on a programmer unless they had a decent amount of experience on the machines.

[Aaron Eberhard]

Eh, it can be done...

 

I had a semester of basic machining in college, which consisted of maybe 8 days worth of manual Bridgeport lathes and mills, we made two parts, pretty much. After that, I got into Centroid (the control manufacturer) where I was tasked with figuring out how to deal with their 5 axis fixture they designed & the data that they could digitize with the on-machine probe, then teach someone how to reverse engineer what they digitized and cut it back in simultaneous 5 axis (and be taught this in less than two weeks).

 

So, to sum it up: My first experience with CAM was teaching myself Mastercam on a 5 axis machine (with some great help from CNC corporate, I might add!), in a company where no one had ever cut simultaneous 5 axis, so we could sell a product they were developing in a market that hadn't been established yet. I did have some background that helped me out, but it was all software/CAD/electronics integration, not on the machining or CAM side, and the company had some great machinists to help me along when I needed it.

 

Now, I'm not going to say that everything I ever designed (fixture or part wise) turned out perfect the first go by any means, but no one died

 

Like Newbeeee said, you can do anything if you put your mind to it. . It helps to be stubborn enough to realize that it's just an integrated computer, you can beat it! It also helps to break it down into the steps you need to tackle, like anything.

[brandon b]

Another poll: How many of you get the joy of programming and building fixtures for new parts while trying to keep other machines running with other jobs??

[Mick]

The only time I run machines now, is when we get a new machine. I typically run the first few jobs I programme for it, so I can get to know the machine. Then it is handed over to the operator

 

My job is drawing, design, programming, tool management, machine error troubleshooting, IT, tool management, and sometimes agony aunt (LOL)

[within a thou]

I am solely in charge of programming (we don't even have mastercam yet),quoting,setup and some times operating training and discipline of operators all while dealing with all aspects of managing and procurement in a machine shop with 4 cnc's 2 sink edms and many manual machines. This shop was bought at a auction where the past owner ran it so far into the ground it is unreal.When I started back in february there wasn't one holder or cutter that wasn't smashed or cutter missing screws insert seat no inserts and so on. Needless to say that we haven't always worked with a monthly profit. Through this time I was never told what my monthly budget would be up until monday after my little flip out on the owner that got me sent home on friday about if they didn't let me know what they would invest there is no way I can turn this all around. With the exception of the new lathe we got delivery on about 2 weeks ago. The newest cnc was a 1998 vf2 haas (with no balls) along with a 1990 Mitsui seiki twin pallet HMC (that leaks 1.5 gallons of hydraulic oil in a 8 hour shift that had a crayon tapped into a broken switch on the control that if removed or falls out the machine goes into single block with a tool changer that fingers are so worn out that it throws tools that are more than a couple lbs out of it) along with a 1981 Hitachi 2 axis lathe (that has to many issues to list) all wedged into a 1200 sq ft space

 

And for the last couple months trying to build a new bigger plant where the building is nothing more than a old stock warehouse with nothing more than one light in a 5600 sq ft space. This building doesn't even have running water nor a washroom.

 

I am so thankfull my company uses a pop3 email account and for my smart phone (this current shop also doesn't have phone or internet) which has allowed me to search and research everything I need to build this shop from the comfort of a bar stool or my couch if I would have to do this on site I would have given up months ago).

[The_kid]

within an thou what a nightmere. I have been in places similar.

[THEE THAINZ™]

I program, run the machines (most programming is done between runs) and trian my new guys. Not to hijack the pole/survey what do you do with a guy who inspects your parts that has never machined an thinks you can check flatness by just laying a plate on the rock (not 3 point leveled) and checking it with a drop gauge (plunger style indicator). Anyone else ever had QC that didn't understand?

[Newbeeee™]

...Anyone else ever had QC that didn't understand?

If you can't do it, view it

[Guyinthedesert]

Anyone else ever had QC that didn't understand?

 

It's amazing how many QC guys don't understand the concept of flatness. My biggest gripe is when you have a part with a .0005 tru position, they throw it up on a CMM with .0001 resolution, and proclaim, "It's scrap, CMM says it's off"

[The_kid]

yeah that's funny what they are actually checking is parallelism. and if you can do a mechanical check and it's passes then it should be good. rule of 10 time res. should always apply with tolerances.

[within a thou]

I program, run the machines (most programming is done between runs) and trian my new guys. Not to hijack the pole/survey what do you do with a guy who inspects your parts that has never machined an thinks you can check flatness by just laying a plate on the rock (not 3 point leveled) and checking it with a drop gauge (plunger style indicator). Anyone else ever had QC that didn't understand?

 

I use to work for a major aerospace company that is worldwide and their QC department consisted of a guy who's background was as a landscaper who ran the department that included a gentleman who's previous experience was checking the threads on pipes used for plumbing. One day he came and asked me how to use a go no go guage. (which is fine when you don't know but when you tell me that this is not a good way to check a thread because you can't input a size on the QC report) This guy also was responsible for the calibration of all of our personal measuring tools and when he noticed I didn't hand in my telescoping guages to be calibrated he went to upper management and tried to have me written up saying I was jeopardizing his job hiding these from him. I politely told him I wasn't jeopardizing his job but he sure just did. At this said company we did a lot of positioner bases for final body join assembly lines. A lot of our parts were upwards of 200" long with flatness specs for rail faces for linear rails and trucks. He would check the flatness with a 6" vernier and a tape measure. He was actually quite fun to watch and came in quite handy to break up the stresses of the day.