O/T Fires in So Cal

[les]

Hi guys. my best wishs and prayers to you all.

just a few thoughts about the helios on the ground. Flying a rotory wing aircraft in these types of large fires is unbelievably dangerous. what usally happens is after dropping there load they overcompensate, hit a downdraft, and crash { they need to be low to be effective }. I agree that they are the best military pilots on earth but I've been there and seen what can go wrong. The weather around these fires is something you don't want to be in. I'm not putting anyone down, just trying to help explain.

 

again.. my best wishs and prayers are with you all.

[Rekd™]

Thanks les.

 

Totally understandable. What I don't understand is why there was NO air support for 2 days..

 

We had the assets here, why weren't we using them? Why weren't we training them on Sunday? Why wait 'til Tuesday?

 

'Rekd

[les]

I agree totaly. when the fires were small they should of kicked the liven.... out of them. they knew the fuel situation, the winter winds, terain ect..we just went threw this not to long ago. they knew all that, plus the recent history of fires where they were slow to react and were still not prepared.. a recall and culling of the herd is a great idea. a 4 year old can put 2 + 2 together and get 4 .

 

try not to get to depressed.

 

back to work i must go

 

les teh pray for rain

[Charles Davis]

Mark Linder!!!!!

 

Wowaaahhh..... I had no idea you were evacuated. You should have called, you could have stayed at our place!

 

Glad you dodged the bullets. It looks like maybe we've turned the corner on this thing. We will remember this for a long time.

 

Again, happy you are safe. You may want to think about installing sprinklers on your roof!

 

Charles

[les]

Hi all

Just herd on the radio that were sending some crews and tankers down. So keep your heads down when the crazy canucks do get there, leave a empty glass outside cause sometimes we run out of water and use beer insted I truly hope this ends soon.

 

I was to mad to sleep last night. whatched a show called daily planet. they interved a us forest dork and he was laughing a jokeing about now this will end at the ocean and to much fuel ect... I wanted to reach into the t.v. and ....

 

best of luck les

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Well, as I see it right now(looking out of my door), there is snow on the Mountains! Three days ago it was nearly 100 Deg. now I'm wearing a jacket.

 

For the canuks coming, bring your winter gear!!!

[Charles Davis]

San Diego, 1:45 Friday.

 

Rain and cold in the mountains. Julian saved. Fire getting under control.

 

The Toll in San Diego alone:

350,000 acres burned

1,700 homes lost

16 people dead

 

Thank God it's finally getting better.

[Rekd™]

quote:

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The Toll in San Diego alone:

350,000 acres burned

1,700 homes lost

16 people dead

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I have 2 words for you...

 

WHY!?

 

'Rekd

[Rekd™]

I thought you might get some enlightenment from this, I sure did.

 

quote:

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Stop The Widlfires: A Letter to the Editor

By Tina Terry

 

Greg Johnson

Orange County Editorial Page Editor

L.A. Times, O.C.

1375 Sunflower Ave.,

Costa Mesa, CA 92626

 

October 30th, 2003

 

Dear Editor,

 

The column by Steve Lopez, "Using Fires to Blow Political Smoke" is so egregiously clueless that I find myself wondering where this guy gets his chuckleheaded concepts, and to which enviro-terrorist group he owes his allegiance. Mr. Lopez's dangerous positions need to be refuted with facts and evidence.

 

I have lived in Payson, Arizona, for almost 10 years. Payson is a small town of about fifteen thousand, and is around forty miles southwest of Heber-Overgaard/Show Low - the scene of last year's horrific Rodeo-Chediski fire. Payson was the evacuation center for refugees (human and animal), and is itself surrounded by the Tonto National Forest, which is adjacent to the Prescott, Coconino and Sitgreaves National Forests. All of these federally run forests are right now made up of about a third to a half or more bark-beetle-killed trees - i.e. a huge pile of standing dead kindling in danger of igniting a la Rodeo-Chediski, and the horrid conflagrations now ravaging Southern California.

 

In addition to the thousands of acres of dead trees, the entire national forest in this area is clogged with hot-burning manzanita undergrowth, and also horridly and unhealthily overgrown with way too many trees per acre - we have as many as 2000-4000 trees per acre, whereas a healthy, conflagration-resistant forest would have around 250 or so trees per acre.

 

Widely spaced, healthy trees, with mostly grassy undergrowth is how the forest used to be before the anti-logging egco-wackos persuaded federal judges that, essentially, no twig must be broken, no standing dead trees can be cut, all logging is evil and every human intercession in the forest must be totally eliminated. The result of this policy is that literally thousands of jobs in rural America have been lost, and we are now in mortal danger of losing many rural towns to runaway wild-fires - just as many California rural towns are now burning, or in danger or burning.

 

Before I moved to Payson I lived in South Laguna Beach, CA, where I barely survived the horrible Laguna Beach fire, which came within a mile of my house. Since then I have tried to research as much as possible the issues of forest fires and the history of the national forests in America.

 

Here are some highlights of my research that many people don't know, and that those reading Mr. Lopez's article need to understand:

 

#1 - The original charter for the national forests in America was specifically for the purpose of providing a reliable source of timber (a renewable resource) for the American people. Clear-cutting was a form of logging that has long since been replaced by selective logging - but that itself has been almost completely stopped by environmental extremists throughout all national forests. So these days, because of enviro-wacko-promoted legislation, we're now importing timber from other countries, while U.S. forests burn, instead of being properly logged and harvested by private American logging interests.

 

#2 - Until the U.S. Forest Service came into being, America's national forests were healthy, and managed by private interests, grazed by ranchers, and rarely had the kind of horrific conflagration from which we are now suffering. For much information on this, see the excellently researched book, "Looking Through the Smoke" by Arizona author Jynx Pyle. This book has been officially admitted as evidence into the U.S. Congressional Record.

 

#3 - "Old Growth" is bogus. Now that the forests are clogged with way too many trees, "old growth" trees are often spindly little things that have no room to flourish because of there being so too many trees growing in the enviro-wacko forests of Steve Lopez's lurid fantasies. NAU Professor Wally Covington's findings on this, and the imminent danger of our losing our entire national forest, can be read at:

http://www.naualumni.com/News/News.cfm?ID=1400&c=15

 

#4 - The U.S. General Accounting Office (GAO) has released the following facts regarding the inestimable damage done by environmental extremists - damage that has DIRECTLY led to the present catastrophic fires in California and many fires in other areas of the country, and that continues to put my community and many other rural American communities in ongoing danger:

 

* 59% of eligible forest thinning projects in the U.S. were appealed in FY2001 and FY2002.

 

* 52% of eligible forest thinning projects proposed near communities in the Wildland-Urban Interface were appealed in FY2001 and FY2002.

 

* Environmental appeals were found to be overwhelmingly without merit, as 161 of 180 challenges were thrown out during FY2001 and FY2002.

 

* 66% of all eligible forest fuels reduction activities were appealed in the state of California during FY2001 and FY2002.

 

* Appeals delayed thinning projects by at least 120 days in FY2001 and FY2002.

 

For more on the GAO's full report, see:

http://www.sierratimes.com/03/10/30/article_ca.htm

 

#5 - The true agenda of many so-called "environmentalists" is actually an extremist goal of "rewilding" over 50% of the United States, and removing all us "evil" humans to "human islands" (i.e. urban ghettos.) The name of this goal is The Wildlands Project, its official web site is:

http://www.wildlandsproject.org/

and its stated goal is as follows:

 

"…we live for the day when Grizzlies in Chihuahua have an unbroken connection to Grizzlies in Alaska; when Gray Wolf populations are continuous from New Mexico to Greenland; when vast unbroken forests and flowing plains again thrive and support pre-Columbian populations of plants and animals..." (The Wildlands Project goal statement.)

 

Dave Forman, founder of the eco-terrorist organization, Earth First! and board member of the Sierra Club puts it this way:

 

"Does all the foregoing mean that Wild Earth and The Wildlands Project advocate the end of industrial civilization? Most assuredly. Everything civilized must go." - Dave Forman

 

For a description of what this draconian Project is REALLY about, and how it has a lot of big money behind it, see:

http://www.mtmultipleuse.org/wildlands_project.htm

and

http://www.getusout.org/un/articles/green_machine.htm

 

For a list of some of the organizations supporting this radical "rural-cleansing" agenda, see:

http://www.therockerbox.com/extremists.htm

 

Many so-called "environmentalist" groups are on this list, including the Sierra Club, with whose Arizona representative, Sandy Bahr, I have personally spoken. When I asked Ms. Bahr over a year ago about the Sierra Club's position on all of the bark-beetle-killed trees, and what the solution was, her sole response was: "We need rain." The Sierra Club opposes cutting down the dead trees in the forest, using the excuse that it will "harm the forest floor" - the very same forest floor that is now destroyed by runaway conflagrations in California and other states.

 

And how rain alone is supposed to resuscitate DEAD trees is beyond me, but this is a prime example of the true forest "expertise" of Ms. Bahr and her organization.

 

However, when one realizes that the present catastrophic fires are literally burning out, burning down and evacuating rural California, and that forest conditions in rural Arizona and other states are similarly threatening humans living there, one can see that these giant fires actually serve the nefarious goals of those promoting The Wildlands Project. They're happy to burn down the entire forest if that means getting us hated humans out of the way. They're happy to torch the habitats of millions of innocent animals, and murder these poor critters most horribly through wildfire if the desired "rural cleansing" can be achieved.

 

As Forman says, "Everything civilized must go."

 

Steve Lopez and his trashing of Congressman Pombo and the Healthy Forests Act is either utterly ignorant of any history or truth about our national forests, or else he's really a deliberate and dangerous mouthpiece for murderous eco-terrorists like Forman.

 

Sincerely,

 

Tina Terry

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'Rekd

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Damn Enviro-Nazi's!!!

[Rekd™]

quote:

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Rekd

 

 

posted 10-26-2003 08:55 AM

WoW.

 

Lot's going on this a.m. in SD. Fires everywhere. My house is safe (for now), but it's covered with smoke and falling ashes. There's several rows of houses/streets between me and the mountains, but damn I'm nervous..

 

'Rekd teh loading up the fun runner

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As of last nite, the fires in So Cal are OUT!!!!!!!!

 

Note how the fires had more staying power than the ex gobner?

 

'Rekd

[kathy]

Hey Guys -

 

Do you see we're sending down our rice stocks down to you all! They will be used to stop erosion on the hills...

 

Kathy