Makino/Matsuura Mill-Turn

[Mic6]

Just out of curiosity, why don't these 2 builders make an Integrex/Multus style machine (main/sub spindle, milling head, lower turret)  Do they just focus on what they do best, since they don't make lathes or they let the others handle that market? (Cublex aside) 

[Sticky]

You got it, same reason Fidia, Yasda, Hermle and Roeders don't make turning machines, and likewise, Nakamura, Index etc don't make mills.

[mkd]

sounds like a marketing strategy.

gonna have to ask the CEO, for that one. (i'll let you know what he says, when he gets back to me )

 

OKUMA and MAZAK both make machines that compete with makino/mats.

 

could argue that the smaller maker is more effecient focusing on a small product line (in -n-out burger style)

 

college types will tell you economies of scale will win if you can standardize components across a large product offering.

 

so clearly Haas wins

[Newbeeee™]

Matsuura started out making lathes back in the day...

[Mic6]

Thanks for the insight guys.

[Guest]

Quality builders don't strive to be all things to all people.

[Mic6]

I bet they would kill if they did make one 

[mkd]

I bet they would kill if they did make one 

as long as their Y axis doesnt grow like their mx520 mills

[GoetzInd]

Funny how the builders that only make lathes or mills are some of the best. 

 

Mike

[mkd]

Funny how the builders that only make lathes or mills are some of the best. 

 

Mike

i haven't run "the best"

Fadal only makes mills...so...? :-)

 

who makes the best Lathes from a lathe only maker? what specifically is better than the competition? features? benefits?

 

mills?

 

i knew a shop that bought a new Nakamura lathe in the '90's. It had some bugs/ teething issues.

[Robert Ouellette]

best lathe would have to Nakamura/tome. best mills would be Matsuura and Makino. hands down.

[mkd]

if i was in the market for a new 40 x20 mill, Okuma genos 56 would probably be at the top of the list.

 

so what would be better about a Ps95 makino?

[jlw™]

I guess that's a matter of opinion. One of the beat mills I've had my hands on was a Grob or a Heller. But then again, it depends on application. You don't want to drop 2 million on a Grob when a $60k Haas will do the job.

[Guest]

...it depends on application.

 

It ALL depends on the application. :

[Mic6]

as long as their Y axis doesnt grow like their mx520 mills

 

Do tell!

[mkd]

Do tell!

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/cnc-machining/matsuura-mx-520-tool-point-control-kinematic-parameters-thermal-growth-309275/

 

joe788 put some really awesome naked pictures on the thread. really!

(they can cuss over there too)

[Guest]

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/cnc-machining/matsuura-mx-520-tool-point-control-kinematic-parameters-thermal-growth-309275/

 

joe788 put some really awesome naked pictures on the thread. really!

(they can cuss over there too)

 

Yes good illustrations in the differences in machine constructions. We've got a few in SoCal and a few more in NorCal. This was the first I heard about it.

 

There was a suggestion in the topic to use WSEC to comp for the error. That is one way. The other way is once the machine has reached operating temperature, run eZ-5 (Matsuura's equivalent to Renishaw's Axi-Set) to reset center of rotation and machine as normal.

 

Too bad joe bailed. He's a cool dude. Isn't the first time people got tired of the trolls. The tree stooges call me a troll, maybe I do on occasion, but, at least I bring something positive to the table. They bring two things, NOTHING, AND NOTHING GOOD. My technical expertise MORE than makes up for my occasional troll. Like I've said before, I could stop posting for the next DECADE then the 3 stooges COMBINED would not equal my quality contributions to date. :

[Sticky]

What I find odd about .0016" of thermal growth in the Y is that the machine has scales. That is unacceptable, that is the type of thermal growth I expect from a Mats without scales.

[Guest]

What I find odd about .0016" of thermal growth in the Y is that the machine has scales.

Yeah, no kidding. That's what has me scratching my head. And we have enough in my territory (between 8 and a dozen) that I feel like I would have heard something by now. I guess I will keep my ear pressed to the pavement.

 

That's one thing that bugs me about the internet. A small number of people (or one vocal person) have an issue with something and it gets WAY bigger than it really is. My wife is part of a Facebook group... well in this group, they report crime. During a period of time there was a few Suburbans broken into and the 3rd row seats were stolen. EVERYONE was talking about it, it got huge and sounded like there multiples every day. Finally, a cop posts up with the crime statistics and vehicle break ins were actually on the decline, but because everyone was talking about it it became larger than it really was.

[mkd]

What I find odd about .0016" of thermal growth in the Y is that the machine has scales. That is unacceptable, that is the type of thermal growth I expect from a Haas 5ax trunnion without scales.

fixed for my experience.

 

 I know, in the past, i have postulated problems i was seeing only to find out it was really my error.

 so we would need independent confirmation before drawing any conclusions.

 seems like using that "eZ-5 (Matsuura's equivalent to Renishaw's Axi-Set)" and tracking the changes would put the issue to bed.

[Sticky]

 seems like using that "eZ-5 (Matsuura's equivalent to Renishaw's Axi-Set)" and tracking the changes would put the issue to bed.

 

No, that would be masking the problem. I would be surprised if that machine actually generated enough heat to move .0016" in a climate controlled environment, without scales. I'd be curious to know if there was a ballscrew/way lubrication issue, or if it is a scale feedback issue.

[mkd]

sorry, what meant by  tracking the changes was tracking the parameters in the control that changes when you run the ez-5 routine. if parameters changes by amount being mentioned, that would pretty much confirm it, independent of operator error.

 

the fact that the A-axis structure and motor (heat) connects to the machine along Y leads me to believe one would see some growth along Y.

*Its pretty cool how the X axis guides are so close to the Y axis. must be wicked rigid that way.

 

I would be surprised if that machine actually generated enough heat to move .0016" in a climate controlled environment

 

good point. some quick math could maybe call BS on the whole thing.

what would the delta T be to get .0016 growth over 16"(?) inshes?

[Sticky]

15-16*F is enough for steel to expand .0016" over 16", which would be a huge swing in climate and it would take a long time to be absorbed and shown in the machine, but, a lack of lubricity, over aggressive rapid speeds or accel/decel rates and your could see that temperature increase localized on your ballscrew and trucks in an hour or less.

[Guest]

When it comes to machines and software, I assume I am the problem first and that I am doing/measuring something wrong. Makes troubleshooting MUCH easier. :

[Sticky]

^ the #1 starting point!