How about Windows 7 and Quadro drivers?? I wanted to try the Quadro 580 512M card or even the 1800 on a home budget PC...anyone run this in Win 7 and MC?? I'm seeing some bad issues with Win 7 and older graphics cards (2-3 yrs old GE Force 8800).

quote: I found with Rick's issue that filer settings like this gave the desired resultProblem I see with that is you used .0067 tolerance of the +/- .007 that part has for tolerance. Tough to make good parts that way. I try to keep within 20% of tolerance if possible to assure part profile to model match.

quote: How can I get a better wireframe from surfaces created in X.If the surfaces were created in X and quality has dropped (gaps), you may want to check your system tolerances and max surface deviation tolerance. If you are looking for cleaner wire to chain toolpath I find I get cleaner planer wire by create / curve / slice then using edge curves (often times)...just be careful if the surface has angle to it because you get a wire (slice) at the Z level selected. Also, the Chook SILHOUETTEBOUNDARY.DLL will get you the outbound profile, and can often be helpful.

quote: When cutting a spline and using the filter, two things happen: First the toolpath linerizes the spline (which by itself would give you only G1 moves), then the filter trys to fit arcs to your path based on your tolerances. If so then there have been improvements made to the filter. I haven't played with chaining splines since prob. X2... I have always overdrawn the arcs to get better finish or be able to machine at high speed without the machine beating itself to death. I'll have to open up the filter tolerances and see...mine are set to .001 by default. Update...I just chained through some large 20" to 50" rads (splined) that are typical in aerospace and I got about 50% toolpath in G1 (X3). These could easilly be overdrawn into arcs well within .001 to speed up toolpath and improve finish and MC facets these areas. Unacceptable IMO and I will continue to overdraw for machine speed and wear improvement. I will say there looks to have been some improvement to the filter at some point. Here is the code I got at .001 filter. N1 (TOOLPLANE NAME - TOP) N2 M06 T.34 (3/4 CARB. 3FL. E/MILL .03R 2.1 OOH ROUGH) N3 G96 (RTCP ON) N4 G00 G17 G40 G80 G90 N5 G55 O1 N6 M155 N7 G94 N8 G00 G17 G90 X-24.2695 Y13.2681 S18000 M03 N9 G00 A0. C0. N10 G00 Z3.6 M08 N11 G00 Z1.7 N12 G01 Z-1.05 F35000 N13 G41 X-24.6295 Y13.4425 F60000 N14 X-24.7547 Y13.1841 N15 G03 X-24.8719 Y12.8745 I1.633 J-.7954 N16 G03 X-24.929 Y12.3566 I1.6092 J-.4394 N17 G03 X-24.821 Y11.8189 I1.7719 J.076 N18 G03 X-24.6239 Y11.4431 I1.6097 J.6046 N19 G03 X-24.2302 Y11.0258 I1.5435 J1.062 N20 G03 X-23.8509 Y10.801 I1.1181 J1.4545 N21 G03 X-23.3005 Y10.6473 I.7953 J1.7848 N22 G03 X-22.8561 Y10.6472 I.2222 J1.8414 N23 G01 X-22.7533 Y10.662 N24 X-22.4231 Y10.7184 N25 X-21.6882 Y10.8461 N26 G02 X-20.4128 Y11.0547 I11.6064 J-66.9401 N27 G01 X-19.7342 Y11.1547 N28 X-19.0949 Y11.2409 N29 X-18.4945 Y11.3137 N30 G02 X-17.5147 Y11.4128 I4.1573 J-36.1983 N31 G01 X-17.0271 Y11.4513 N32 X-16.5576 Y11.4803 N33 X-16.1152 Y11.4996 N34 X-15.7004 Y11.5097 N35 G02 X-15.1838 Y11.5099 I.267 J-18.6663 N36 G01 X-14.8097 Y11.5006 N37 X-14.4526 Y11.4838 N38 X-14.1037 Y11.4592 N39 X-13.7671 Y11.4273 N40 X-13.4392 Y11.388 N41 X-13.1113 Y11.3403 N42 X-12.7833 Y11.2843 N43 X-12.4551 Y11.22 N44 X-12.128 Y11.1475 N45 X-11.9814 Y11.1123 N46 G02 X-11.2672 Y10.9185 I-3.7501 J-15.2363 N47 G01 X-10.9132 Y10.8094 N48 G02 X-10.3953 Y10.6353 I-5.8623 J-18.2894 N49 G01 X-10.2804 Y10.5916 N50 X-9.8814 Y10.4246 N51 G02 X-9.268 Y10.1526 I-11.8895 J-27.6436 N52 G02 X-8.2767 Y9.6854 I-21.9205 J-47.7931 N53 G01 X-7.2947 Y9.2072 N54 G02 X-6.3206 Y8.721 I-40.482 J-82.3183 N55 G01 G40 X-6.1411 Y9.0785 N56 G00 Z3.6 N57 G0 Z12.0 M9 N58 G0 A0. C0. N59 M05 N60 G00 A0. C0. N61 M02 [ 01-05-2010, 10:17 PM: Message edited by: Verndog ]

quote: X4 mr1 Mill3 with solids and 5 axis I used a customers .stp file to generate a pretty elaborate 3 axis program and my tool path has facets instead of G2 and G3 codes. I tried all the filters (or so I think) but I still have the facets (smaller or larger, but still facets instead of arcs). I have a profile of .014 tolerance (+/-.007)from the actual model. Ay suggestions of what I can change to force G2 and G3 codes? More then likely you are chaining through splines. Turn all splines a different color on the toolpath level and you'll see where this happens. ANY spline chained will output G1. A filter will not solve this issue, you have to create arcs from the spline manually to get G2/G3 output.

quote: Thanks for all the replies. This post was made for a Kitamura 5-ax horizontal. We found out today that we do not have this option installed on our machine but we are going to purchase it. I beleive our Deckels with Heidenhain controls also have this capability. Dynamic coordinate tracking is an excellent option to get jobs up and running quickly. You may find an advantage to post out additional WCS's at rotations just to give the flexability to adjust part (dial in nuts) on the machine. Basically you dont need to worry about the fixturing placement set G54.2 and let the control do the rest... no more shifting and re-posting.

For the most part I trust it, but if I'm cutting expensive material blanks then there is a VERY FAST way to double check for gouge. After you make toolpath and verify, just save the STL file as say "OP1.STL". Then file/ merge / STL in MC and turn on save as mesh (import on its own level). Now you imported a solid looking STL that you can make say color 15 (white). Now turn on your finished part model and shade...make sure its some other color say 12 (red). Rotate part around and look for red color ANYWHERE...if you see it then there is a gouge. And yes...MC can gouge from time to time (more so with bullnose) depending on parameter selection, toolpath and tolerancing choosen. This whole process takes under 3 mins and is well worth the time in many cases. Practice this 1 year and you will get a raise.

Ahhh...that makes sence now. Your running 5ax curve posting in 4ax mode with vertical 4 axis machine. Try this. Its winding up the rotary axis prob. because of previous cuts and where it left off. Make a toolplane that is identical to the one your in (Likely Top) and save it. Then pick that toolplane before making this toolpath. That may trick Mastercam into unwinding and starting from A0 to begin this cut. Editing the post takes time and experiance...and often 1 change leads to several sections of post mods. Also...option C...above the part, you can create a 5axis curve toolpath that forces (rolls) the rotary axis (at high feedrate) back toward A0 then the next toolpath (the one you posted) will roll back to A28xxx to begin. This can be done with 1 curve and 2 lines.

Is this a rotary/tilt 5 axis with 360 on A and over 90 degs. on C? If so, and you look at your toolpath there is no need to make this cut in 5 axis curve. Also...if true, that cut is nothing more then a fancy coded 3ax profile done in 5ax curve (unless there are C moves not posted somewhere in path)

Look for a section like this. pcoutrev #Rotary axis revolution calculation (Modify for wind-up) cdelta = csav - prv_csav while abs(cdelta) > ctol, #If motion exceeds ctol, add wind-up xx

There is a problem with wind up in your post. The A move you are rapiding to is the exact same position the machine is already at only 360 degs. away from it. I'd really need to see the post to find the problem. As a work around you can select force tool change on this operation and the post should reset the initial move back to A28.xxx before making this cut. It will throw a Txx M6 in but machine will do nothing if left besides rapid up turn off coolant and spindle then go back and start cutting again. Re posting will be safe this way also.

Another big issue with me is the holder layout. Just try making a holder stick in X4!! And yes...its safe to say this is part of so called "upgraded parameters" (tree style). I have been using custom holder drawings by replacing the file holder.mcx in the tools folder that gives me an exact replication of the machine tool with spindle in tight clearance situations. I've attached a rotary 4axis job with tight clearance that has 28 holes...(many intersecting) with tight reach for ref. This is imperative that I KNOW before defining the tool/holder and LOC before issuing to shop floor, and I KNOW it clears without spindle / holder collision. And I know it clears BEFORE vericut so I save time back and forth redoing what I should know at time of toolpath gen. BTW... I dont have tool / holder collisions that I see many others suffer from because of this. Try doing this in X4. It will depend somewhere in the machine def. manager whether the file holder.mcx or new tool def. or the size defined in params is used. I dont need tons of pages of irritating holders defined that I have to verify each dim when I've already done so. Most people can get by with 10-12 holder defs. that will be close...when its real tight THEN you dial to exact spec and save for later use. This is part of "the big picture" I'm accused of not seeing.

quote: Edit: Oh, and Dynamic milling...once you use it, you will never go backI heard the same thing about dark meat...and haven't ever tried it...but...never say never. I've used 7 different cad cam systems over the years, and 80% of the last 24 years programming in Mastercam. Dont misunderstand my gripes...the intent is to promt somebody at MC QC to strive to get it right the first time...pretty much the same standard I hold myself to...in the "real world". [ 12-30-2009, 11:39 PM: Message edited by: Verndog ]

quote: The company wants to use Dell so this is what our IT guy came up with, with money budget of 5k in mind for everything. What do you guys think? Dell Precision 7500 Desktop 2 x Intel Xeon E5520 Quad Core 2.26GHz Processor 4GB DDR3 RAM 2x300GB SAS 15k Hard Drive RAID 1 Array 16X DVD-ROM Drive Gigabit Ethernet NVidia Quadro FX4800 1.5GB PERC 6i/R RAID Card 2 x Dell UltraSharp U2410 24in LCD Monitor Microsoft Windows 7 64-Bit XP Shawn.. I think the Xeon E5520 is about as fast as an older Quad core @ 2.4Ghz... and the Core I7 is WAY more bang for the buck. Here is a benchmark chart for processors and you can see from the chart that the Xeon's are behind the pack unless you fork out $2,000 for a high end W5590 @ 3.3Ghz. Processor Speed Chart

quote: Anybody that wants to stick with X3 because X4 and the tree dialogs are "slower" is not looking at the whole picture.Hmmm...where to start. Well...you only mentioned 1 reason of the 3 I mentioned and there are obviously more I didn't take time to point out...but...to begin, all the lost time with toolpath regen errors and lost DAYS in X4 that just about drove me back to drinking...I'm tired of being the $14,000 beta tester for software, and have no time for it. Transform errors...rarely use it anymore. Let me just say this...I do see the big picture.. its MY big picture not somebody elses. I dont do mold work, and toolpath generation times add up to squat at the end of the week. Right now I'm cutting prototype smaller size complex precision parts and need a system that doesn't make a high end PC look like a 386 PC. When they get it right, I'll upgrade (but from my experiance with MC that is SP1 to SP2 from any new release), just like 64b Win 7 and support for it...I'll wait.

quote: I've also noted that the old legacy surfacing toolpaths open instantly on all machines. Common sense say the new tree style toolpath ladder is involved as well.I've made several posts in reguard to this exact issue. Not only is there a delay, but they force an unnecessary pull down that hides params if you dont make the extra motion. All just to leave a small tiny window the same size? Makes no sence, plus the fact you have a mixture of old and new style params that doesnt flow as well as all similar. They give updated tool holder definition that work and are accessible only to the new style params, and dont stick as default for that tool. You have to keep picking holder for each toolpath with SAME TOOL?? Rediculous...once a holder is defined it needs to "stick". So....for that reason, my new system will be running X3 and no X4 will be allowed in the shop. Listening MC?? Progress means faster...not slower.

quote: remember that 32 bit can only utilize around 4gb of ram, that includes video card ram too!Thats no problem for me. I've done some intensive parts with 2 gigs of ram. You just need to restart MC occasionally . Sometimes I think too much is made of ram. IMO 2-4 gigs is adaquite for up to 50M file size (prob. more). I rarely let my files exceede that. Also, there are other considerations. I know Catia V5 had some major issues w 64b also. I'll choose stability over speed any day..there is enough to worry about. A "fast" but glitchy system isn't really fast when all said and done.

quote: I have the 64 bit precision and like Chris says 54 seconds Then I drag in a couple of MC files I need to work on after the clean install, then it goes up to 2 min. This is just to load Mastercam after its been cached once?? I just loaded Win 7 Ultimate 32 and MC loads in 4 seconds. I'm building a new system and am trying to decide on 32 or 64B version. I've heard of other driver issues with 64 and since MC is only written for 32 I'm leaning that way for compatability reasons.

Found the culprit. It was advanced power settings on the Logitech wireless mouse (USB). Possibly since Mouse and SpacePilot are both Logitech, unplugging the Pilot helped system to shut down properly. I disabled "allow this device to wake computer" setting on mouse and all is good. Didn't have to do that in XP though?? Anyway...so far Win7 32 Ultimate rocks!

Thanks for the quick responce guys. At this point I'm not sure again. Now unplugging pilot and sleep mode not working again. Possibly it was a coincidence that it worked the first time I inplugged it??? I've been reading up that there have been quite a few problems causing the sleep to kick back on right away. I'm running the 12/22 newest driver. I like the speed and layout of win7 so far, but the issues are beginning to create a list that soon will be putting the XP hard drive back in.

I am testing Windows 7 and have pinpointed the issue with sleep mode to the space pilot. I downloaded the latest driver and still no luck. As soon as I unplug the space pilot it will sleep. I see nothing under USB settings that allows a seperate power option on this device. Anyone else run into this, and find a resolution??

quote: see how many programs cause spindle, linear guide, rotary, toolholders, ad infinitem, repair problems.... Then you'll see just how debatable it is.....In all fairness I am greatful for these wageboosting employees, although repeated offenders dont last long on my watch.

quote: I guess there's just some tribal knowledgeI was going from the initial post and must have missed the tribal smoke signal...I'll warn the General on these matters.

quote: CNC Apps guy, you are missing verndogs point completely.Ahhh...the voice of reason. Did I miss something?? Never saw the discussion was limited to 5ax.

quote: A new piece of material is generally a lot cheaper than 30-100K for new spindle cartridge and 1 weeks downtime.Exactly my point. In that case it is not debateable, Vericut should be mandatory. My statement was based on the blanket comment that without question it would pay for itself xx times over without knowing the situation. There are many Ma and Pa shops that purchase used CNC equipment that make cheap competitive parts with skilled few employees, that rarely if at all crash. Spending 15K on software for a used 20K machine or even 2 (making $50.00 parts) would be a bit silly...so it really would be debateable...DEPENDING on the situation.