Ernie, Wow - this thread seems to be a hot one. Please name the machine tool that you are using. It might be insignifcant - but who knows. Hang in there with this one - it will only build character. Regards, Jack

Ernie, I once quoted a job for a defense contracter. This entailed me producing a workpiece that did not contain a finish tolerance on the part itself. The tolerance was the relection from the finish - or there abouts. The part was a radar reflector for some kind of weapon (We had to have an armed guard accompany us in order to view the prototype). The finish you require could perhaps be obtained through polishing as opposed to trying to machine an improbable situation. Yes, we do have the mathematical and mechanical technology to solve many tasks, I don't believe what you are after to be a realistic expectation. Please do not take offense - perhaps I and the others misunderstand what it is you are looking for. Regards, Jack

Corey, No suasages until he's at least two years old. Regards & congrats, Jack

PeterE, Here is what I get when I responded to the email in your profile. Message was quarantined because it contained banned content. Please echo a real email address for a real and honest reponse - if you will. Regards, Jack

Jayson, Please do not stand aside on this issue; John (God bless him), actually stood up to me, you, & the entire forum. This man wants to know the scoop – he is hungry for a solution, he only wants to make an informed decision on which cam system will best fit his company’s needs; I emailed you & James before responding with the follow up. Sure, I could sell John in a five minute phone call – but quite frankly, this is not my job. I have never, ever promoted a product before, nor have I received any form of gratuity for doing so. I am not interested in sales, profit, after market sales, post solutions, or anything else. What’s in it for me? The satisfaction that I was simply being me – I told the truth, I feel good, I said it like it is, etc! Not to put you down, or any other VAR; sell this man and you will sell another ten, right here - on this forum. This forum is truly the envy of all competitors; we work it, we play with it, and we earn the praise & the trashing with every post. Take it from me, I have issued and taken the beatings, and yet I fear not. – dammit all you guys, talk this one out. I have be contemplating a remarkable fish story as of late - don't make me post this please. Regards, Jack

Brian, Please read the article; it is based on the sales volume, Mastercam only received an honorable mention - this is what disturbed me. The quotes that I put forth were the only positives rendered. This article smacks of “the pay-off, the topping up of the beer glass” Why promote the sales volume – the big three or four of the automotive sectors have a lot of clout in this arena; Mastercam unfortunately does not enter the realm of tremendous cost of the extremely expensive solutions that Cimdata refers to. I am curious as to why the Vice President choose to publish in the first place. Be grateful that he does indeed acknowledge that Mastercam is in-fact the de-facto standard that other cam solutions are measured against. Regards, Jack

V-Neck sweaters? Now there’s something I haven’t seen in a while; I usually wear those gaudy Grateful Dead and Hawaiian shirts. Could this possibly be a resurgence or perhaps, a trend setting thread? Don’t hold back on me here; give me the leads for these classic shirts. Regards, Jack

John, Nice homepage. I also stand corrected about the other user groups – I will not be frequenting them. I agree with your comment about Edgecam. I bought this as version 2 since it fit right into Mechanical desktop at the time. Once Mechanical desktop went to version 3, Edgecam was really late with the fix & eventual upgrade. The support that I received from the US distributor was the bump to calling Pathtrace overseas ~ still no satisfaction, just a lot of talk. All of this, then the begging for me to pay the maintenance agreements. I was suckered badly this time and paid 500.00 US for absolutely nothing – not even an upgrade disk. The next year again $750.00 US – the woman on the phone literally begged for the maintenance costs. Once again, nothing, Edgecam is slick & pretty, I’ll give it that much – the bottom line is they really can market their product on the coexistence compatibility issue. Outside of that, try it out by itself – It sort of sucks. Try it out within Solidworks, it actually fits up quite nicely - but still sucks. Smartcam is a travesty in itself – The first cam package that I bought, learned and taught. Really, when you analyze a cad or cam package – they are all just calculators with screens, same as the Cnc machine tools – calculators with spindles on them. Every single cad/cam system needs their own unique interface to capture you – the end user. Mastercam is the heads up leader with a bullet. I actually did an independent survey in 1995 for a government body. I was well paid and compiled the actual user list for our surrounding area – Mastercam was 80% in 1995. I believe they are closer to 90% today. The largest factor favoring Cnc software is the constant improvements and of course the forum. Bang around the forum for as long as you like – it’s intense sometimes, I sort of mix it up a little from time to time. We have many off topic issues that effect almost all users – read the O/T coolant thread. I sort of have a special situation since I am also a registered user of the other two products as well – I can call their baby’s ugly for I have paid large for these products. Mastercam provides us with an affordable cam solution - follow your instincts on this one. Regards, Jack

jammer, What this other person has seen at the tool show, is the usual dog & pony BS that is always shown. Don’t tell him – but let’s hope he buys into it and drops a wad of cash while doing so. It’s his head that will be up his arse, not yours, when it all hits the fan. Funny thing when a purchasing agent or the Engineering Manager makes these business decisions – they don’t seem to be around when the General Manager expects the molds to be completed & shipped in a reasonable amount of time; In-fact they won’t be around at all given a few months of saying “I called the support help line” “They have never heard of this problem before” “It will be addressed in their newest update within the month” “the salesman swears it’s a computer glitch caused by bad video drivers” Blah, blah, blah, - does any person out there know what it’s like to take the daily beating from an irate customer? Surly the competitor’s product is taught in thousands of community colleges as well. Regards, Jack

ARTY2000, Rumors will always run rampant; this is nothing new to any software company. If Mastercam was an attractive proposition to another company, its major attraction would be the end users of world’s largest and most successful cam solution on the market today. I was disappointed to read the article in Modern Machine Shops August edition as written by Cimdata’s Vice President; as published on page 72 “CNC Software moves to the top of the list” “Mastercam is often considered to be the defacto cam software product.” The article is based upon sales dollars rather than seats sold or popularity of the cam software. If Cnc Software did swallow or merge with another company, I will only make their product that much stronger or better in the long term. “How versions do you guys think it will go to before you just load a print and have Mastercam do it for you?” I have heard this argument many times before and beg to differ on this statement. If I gave 12 different people a basic task – all twelve would give a different result. Some would square a block taking equal amounts off each side. Some would machine only two or three sides. Some might leave a larger grind allowance than others, etc! Which criteria would produce the best (in tolerance) part? Who could say which part is the best & why? Which criteria would produce the fastest & most efficient process? If the workpiece is 2 ¼” square – would a computer choose a 2 ½” Facemill? 3” Facemill? , or multipass with a 2” Facemill?, Shoulder cut or 45deg lead? These decisions are what we as human beings choose to do; all of it is based upon rigidity of setup and most importantly, our ability to reason and foresee problems all learned through trial & error. Computers cannot rationalize, they can only add one’s & zero’s. Software is no different; it can only offer a generalized argument and present fly outs to satisfy our input & final solution. Before I die, I would like to see two things: A disintegrating ray gun that will allow a lot of material to be removed without imparting any stress to the remaining material. A monitor that will show a workpiece in real 3D, as I walk around in a circle – viewing it. I realize that I might appear foolish with these wishes; but, was the microwave oven or fax machine not an outrageous thought at one time? Regards, Jack

Corey, The Russian gentleman was correct. Please throw away that book – unless it is Machinery’s handbook (do not throw this one away); Otherwise give him a big bear hug & tell him thanks. Regards, Jack

I just couldn’t resist – quite possibly, this could become a very large flaming folder. But seriously folks; I had a person email me after reading a brief statement that I typed concerning other software packages. I emailed Dave & Greg, asking for their blessing to print this here on the forum – It might be worded a little strongly, hence I cannot post without their blessing; John, the respondent is also aware & would like very much to open this discussion up. I realize that, often, competitors will frequent this place. Personally, I think this is really great. – I don’t believe this to be the case. John is investigating Mastercam & other software programs at the moment; he appears to be quite knowledgeable & does some really neat looking work. Please convince this gentleman that Mastercam is the right choice for him. My response back to him is a serious bash; I believe this opener and my email response to be enough from me on this topic. Sell this man – I wish to print but cannot, but hey, it’s the weekend; And when it’s over TGIM. Regards, Jack

TimHollis, What would I do if I was isolated on a tropical island with only two other people to discuss Cnc/Cad/Cam with? Let me see, I might suggest, simply turn off the computer and get to know the other two people. Sorry Tim – I got caught up with the moment. Regards, Jack

chris m, I purchased Easytalk Basic ver 5.33 a long time ago – at least it’s on a 3 ½ and not the 5 ¼. This was the editor that Mastercam featured in the older versions. By making a null modem cable & spending countless hours on parameters, I finally figured how to Dnc to the M32 control. – This isn’t supposed to happen since I never purchased the option from Mazak. I did contact Cnc Innovations and shared with them the cable config & the affected parameters. Many options are available for multiple machines. I don’t even know if they are still in business, yet, the software still works. Regards, Jack

Wow, really a cool idea - you could probably even sell them. Regards, Jack

The Mitsubishi built Mazatrol M32 tales a maximum of two M codes on a single line – be this Mazatrol or Eia/Iso. I am curious as to how many machines will not accept more than one, keep in mind that this control is Fanuc compatible. One other note on the Fadal 88 - the programming book that I have refers that the header or first positions read are in respect to canned cycles - I gather that for C-drilling, drilling tapping etc would jump to the top of the current program for its required rapid points - then execute the canned cycles – sort of like an M98 P050 L1 within a current program. Fadal became very popular very quickly when they started pumping out their machines. Of course many shops liked the idea of a more reasonably priced Cnc machine tool. One of their smarter moves was to develop their own control – this way they needn’t pay Fanuc or Mitsubishi any premium for their controls. Granted, Fadal is about 95% compatible – this seems OK to most end users & programmers. Chris, No offense taken whatsoever, keep banging away – interesting comment on your machine. Regards, Jack

chris m, Just getting different feedback from forum users with different controls - regarding some common errors that I have learned etc! Try them out and please let me know what happens. Garage toys include a VQC15/40 Mazak - Sometimes, I like to play hard. Regards, Jack

Try this one with your various controls. O0099 N005 G00 G17 G90 G95 G98 N010 G54 (Example**Mitchell**09/05/02) N015 M06 T01 (#3 C-Drill T01/H01) N020 G43 H01 X0 Y0 Z2.0 S3150 M03 M08 N025 G98 G81 X0 Y0 Z-.25 R.1 F.0032 N030 X1.0 X2.0 (yes this is a mistype) N035 X2.0 Y3.0 N040 G80 G49 Z2.0 M09 N045 G91 G28 XYZ N050 M02 % Also try substituting N040 G80 G49 Z2.0 M09 With N040 G00 G49 Z2.0 M09 It’s all part of learning – for those suffering with G94, your already used to it; break out those TI-36X solars. Regards, Jack

Machining Data Handbook 3rd edition ISBN 0-936974-00-1 (Set) Machinabilty Data Center, Institute of Advanced Manufacturing Sciences, Inc. This two volume set was actually developed by the US Army and eventually released to the public (est. 1980s). The info is broken down with feeds & speeds according to tool diameters, radial/axial loading , etc! Metcut Research Associates Inc. is mentioned within these books. Oddly enough, I find the feeds & speeds section of Machinery’s Handbook to be the greyest area of all; the largest contributing factor is your setup rigidity. I tend to agree with many responses on this topic, I am, however, impressed with the closing remark from MfgEng – may the force be with you all. Regards, Jack

Gary, Please consider these programs. O0099 N005 G00 G17 G90 G95 G98 N010 G54 (Example**Mitchell**09/04/02) N015 M06 T01 (#3 C-Drill T01/H01) N020 G43 H01 X.32 Y-.2 Z2.0 S6000 M03 M08 N025 G99 G81 X.32 Y-.2 Z-.03 R.1 F.001 N030 X1.32 N031 X2.32 N035 G80 G49 Z2.0 M09 N040 G91 G28 XYZ N045 M02 % O0099 N005 G00 G17 G90 G94 G98 N010 G54 (Example**Mitchell**09/04/02) N015 M06 T01 (#3 C-Drill T01/H01) N020 G43 H01 X.32 Y-.2 Z2.0 S6000 M03 M08 N025 G98 G81 X.32 Y-.2 Z-.03 R.1 F6.0 N030 X1.32 N031 X2.32 N035 G80 G49 Z2.0 M09 N040 G91 G28 XYZ N045 M02 % Either program should render the same result on your machine tool or mine. The most common error in programming is the “O” instead of “0” The fore & aft comment brackets are also essential – otherwise the control will attempt to execute the various number and letters contained within. Please key these up and try them both out and shift your G54 over a couple of inches. This example is a learning experience for good programming practice. Regards, Jack

Andrew, I missed you at Flowserve. I realize that your busy with your sister plants, IMTS, Etc! Please spend up to $250.00 US as per our email discussion regarding some lunches, what is not spent on lunches will be spent on Emuge taps. There is a cheque at Flowserve for you at reception. I am sorry to resort to leaving this message on the forum – but hey, I know how much of a Mastercam junky we have all become as of late. Although you’re unavailable until Sept. 10th and that I’m also unavailable until Sept. 28th I just know that you will peruse the forum – hence, the best place for contact. Regards, Jack

Rob, The make, model, insert etc!, of the cutting tool. I need all of this, in order to duplicate and appreciate exacting results from both our ends. This will be great fun; this will also be professional & scientific now that MfgEng has shown an interest. The remark on the tapered hole is correct but not always achievable for the smaller of the Npt holes; perhaps, for the 3/4" and larger should be considered for tapered holes. C-drill, tap drill, G84 pipe tap = smaller npt thread forms. C-drill, tap drill, form tool slotdrill, G84 pipe tap = medium npt thread forms. Sorry, (slotdrill is a slang term and is the common method of referring to a center cutting two flute or four flute endmill) – in Canada, – think it was borrowed from England. Regards, Jack

As a registered user of both Smartcam & Edgecam -I bid you good luck - there aren't any support groups or user forums. Welcome to the Mastercam users forum - there's lot's of fun. All the street's are paved in golden. and, nobody ever get's old in, that funny place called the **** If you hangout here - you'll never go hungry again! (Scar ,from the Lion King) Regards, Jack

Chris M, You do realize that the ratio of competent service technicians is actually similar to those employed in our profession. I only wish I could be present to observe this situation. The fact that the machine tool was built in Japan reinforces that it is indeed built properly. If you ask for satisfaction – Yamazaki will fly their maintenance people in to your plant. IMTS is running this week – the service technician is there right under your nose, as is the president of Yamazaki. - mention your concern to his translator & watch the sparks fly. If you’re running with soft jaws, c-drill, drill, & ream a ¼” hole into one of each jaw set. Sweep the jaws from each respective spindle – of course, each is clamped before sweeping. Program the dowel about an inch above centerline. Rapid the machine tool & home it out, sweep the dowel, etc! Actually, this reeks of a machine tool smash – sweep the tooling bores please. Andy at Protech Precision in Mississauga Ontario has likely been through every imaginable scenario with such setups with this exact machine tool; A.W. Miller in Toronto might give you his phone number if you ask for it. I believe the culprit here is either clamping pressure or a turret smash. I believe the handoff of a stationary part to another stationary spindle, is also begging for inaccuracy. – The intent of the sub spindle is to eliminate stopping & starting and other wastages of productive time. Although possible, there could be a quality issue here, however; Mazak does make among the worlds finest machine tools and guarantees them to the nines. Regards, Jack

Jayson & LawyerRon, PCGGRX570 Sony VAIO® GRX-Series Notebook with MobileIntel® Pentium® 4 processor 1.6 GHz-M and a GIGANTIC 16.1” UXGA ultra high display screen. As listed above, I am considering this notebook as a portable solution for Mastercam, mechanical desktop, and possibly Catia in the near future. I know how it’s a shame to buy a notebook when you can readily buy two desktops for essentially the same price. I also assume that Jayson is likely out and about using something like this , given the business that he is in. Does anybody have thoughts or suggestions regarding this? and, is the graphics card in this notebook an acceptable solution? Regards, Jack