Rekd, I recall doing OD contours with cutter comp I would enter with a tangent lead-in to a line move and exiting, I would finish the final arc move with a tangent lead out and the an arc lead out. This worked on the Haas. For pockets, Jimmy may have the right idea to add a pepndicular line move or lead in. Phil

Thanks, James, but I don't know if this applies to the Acramatic style or not but here's what the code looks like: G83X1.Y0.Z-1.R.1K.1J1S2000M03 where R is the R plane, J1 means chip clearance cycle, K is peck value. According to the manual (written in Aramaic, with subtitles), 1st peck is K x 3, 2nd peck is K x 2 and successive pecks are the K value. The chip breaker cycle looks like this: G83X1.Y0.Z-1.R.1K.1F10S2000M03 No J1 means chip breaker. This is the code from the standard MPCIN850.pst. I don't know if this is same actual code as my Acramatic post at work outputs which I think was modified but similar. How 'bout John, Pete, gcode and the other Cincinatti guys, what do you do for your drilling cycles? Trying to figure this out and the manual as you guys know, is a real pain. Phil

Thanks Jimmy, can I put the post up on Monday? I'm home now, and the post we use is at work and I think it is different than the std MPCIN850.pst. Meantime, do you mean that I should create my geometry for the holes at the Z depth (say -1.000)and then select incremental for "depth". Sorry if I sound a bit slow, but I've been out of the loop for a little while. Thanks again, Phil

Regarding the drilling cycle G83, main problem I'm experiencing is having to add the R value (Ref height) to the Z depth to make Z axis go down to the programmed value. Say if I had a Z depth of -1.000 and a ref height of .1, then I would have to put -1.100 for the Z depth for the machine to go to the correct depth. Also it would retract to +.2 for the retract between holes. Is there anything I can do to fix this? Thanks in advance, Phil teh very strange Acramatic drilling cycle man

Are you climb milling or conventional? Just possible that the flats are being generated from climb milling the circle from square stock. Its possible that its pushing in more where there is material on both side of the cutter. Are you leaving a small finish amount and giving it a final climb finish pass? *Sorry, I reread the question - its from round stock - so that answers the square question. Phil

Thanks everyone for the help with the 850SX. Now I'm good to go! Phil

John, I read that in the manual too quote: Fixture offset values greater than 1mm (.05") may be used with extreme caution That's why I'm concerned. However I think they were writing for an audience in the early 90's who were unfamiliar with the purpose and usefulness of multiple fixture offsets and just assumed everyone was used to G92 position settings. But I will try cancelling first with G99 and only then use H values as the replys advise. For cutter comp should I use an 'O' instead of the 'D'? For instance is this the right coding to comp on tool 1: G41O1X-1.?

I am trying a #75 HSS wire drill from MSC going thru .150" SS. The drill is a 135 deg self centering split point to prevent walking and for quick penetration. I am center drilling with a 60 deg V cutter. Phil

Thanks, Pete That's the way we do the tram set up. But as far as G92 for part 0 in X & Y, don't you find that a severe limitation that you can't have multiple fixture offsets, if you need to work on a few different set-ups on the same machine ? Phil

More questions for you guys with the Acramatic 850SX controls. (I am having a tough time ploughing through the manuals myself) 1. How do I find the original "Tool tram surface" value. According to the manual it is "M37" - "Machine State Register". How do I get there? 2. When programming cutter comp G41 and tool wear, do I use an "O" instead of the usual "D"? 3. How much disk space and memory is available in the 850 control? I can't find these. Thanks again for all your help Phil

Thanks fellas for all your help. John, is it safe to use an H value if I first cancel the G92 "position set" with a G99? That way I would be only using values from absolute machine zero. Phil

+1 Aron. How does the NYT lie and distort stats for it's own pro-marxist agenda of appeasement? Last month Paul Krugman stated that the adjusted data indicates that we now have the worse job market in 20 years. However what he failed to mention was that 1990's labor stats weren't reported with the "adjusted" methodology. The Bureau of labor Stats (BLS) shows that the 1990's job market was worse than today using the same "adjusted" method (throwing in part-timers, temps, stay-at-home Moms etc to make the unemployment figures higher). I know this is but I just had to take just a little break from studying MC Lathe. Phil

I just wanted to chime in on the Fryer issue if anyone is still on this thread. My advice is to stay away. In my last shop, Fryer sold us a real wolf ticket. It as a shop mill ( 45K for a retrofitted knee mill with an Anilam control) with a 6-tool changer on the bed. First of all the tool changer worked poorly. The threaded drawbar mechanism sometimes didn't release the previous tool and it ended up crashing on top of the next tool. We also had major problems with the Anilam control which would occasionally rapid the tool in Z down into the part. When we tried to get service on this, they just passed the buck. Fryer poited the finger at Anilam and Anilam at Fryer. My advise, stay away from both! Phil

Wow, gcode, I feel better now, the machines I got were from the early 90's. Jack thanks for the G92 refresher, but it's new to me since I was born and bred on fanuc. quote: tool lenght "H" values According to their manual which is written in greek, the H value brings up X, Y Z values of the fixture offsets. Do I still need to set Z0 with G92 (using the longest tool, of course)?

Hi ya'll, In my present manifestation I find myself recently at work with an old Cinicnatti Sabre 750 VMC and a Talon 208 Turning center both with Acramatic 850 SX controls. I did a search to see if there were any answers to my questions. I think it was James who said he wouldn't trust the Acramatic control with his toaster. I agree. But having started two weeks ago with these culprits, I have some basic sort of questions. 1. How to use Fixture Offsets. Do I type in the values in X and Y and use an H value? The other machinist just sets up part zeros with G92, the ancient pre-industiral revolution method. 2. Better way to set Tool lengths than the typical ancient method? Now we have to first set a reference value (called the "tool tram surface")from the spindle bottom and measure the tool lenths (which is the value from the tip of the tool to the spindle bottom refernece) and then Zero out part Z with a G92. Yuk! More questions to come but this will help get me thru my 3rd week for now. I have a post. Thanks Phil

If you mean the Haas Toolroom Mill which is basically a knee mill retrofit with the Haas control, and without a tool changer, it's closer to $25K as I recall. However I've worked on the VF1 (16x20) and larger Haas machines and they are xcellent for prototype work. They are easy to use, accurate and have great feed rate optimization in the control for high speed work. I have worked on Fadals, Bridgeports, Hardinge, Cinicnatti, Fryer and others but have never worked on a Daewoo. Out of all, Haas gets my vote. Phil

Actually the best way I've found to make Lithophanes is with Artcam. It makes a greyscale out of your picture and creates an stl model by assigning relative Z values according to the black or whiteness of the pixel. I don't know if there is an optional C-hook for this in MC but sometimes I just import the stl models and machine them in MC becuase Artcam's not a very good machining package. But it's damn good for sculptural relief work. Phil

My want list: 1. Have another method for Surface Leftover Finishing where the toolpath steps in to vertical or near vertical walls following the contour of the vertical walls. Similar to the 3D Collapse method but machining only to shallow slope angles and walking in from the outside. 2. Have an option available in all 2D and 3D toolpaths to Plunge down to next Z level at the Plunge rate, rather than the feed rate. Have the Ramp option available for 3D contours and 2D pocketting for Z level transitions. 3. Make available negative values in "Stock to leave" up to the radius of the tool for ball mills and END MILLS! 4> Solids enhansements such as having an otion available to simplify a solid by getting rid of its history and geometry associativity. Also Find Features enhancements to find all fillets even along tangencies. Have operations available to move faces, copy features etc. Thank You, Phil

Thanks Millman for your ideas. I think I can use the ssurface roughing with a small stepdown for other applications. But for this one I need to do a finish leftover toolpath by offsetting and walking in to the vertical walls but not touching them. I hear that Gibbs has this option and I think MC should have it as well. It is a useful method and I would put it on the wishlist for X. Thanks, Phil

Problem: I am looking for a leftover toolpath that machines along a shallow suface and steps in to the verticle wall following the contour of the surface intersection. This would be similar to the 3D collapse leftover method where I would check the vertical surfaces so the toolpath only machines the shallow surfaces offsetting from the vertcal walls. The only trouble with this method is that you can only collapse the geometry and start inside the center of the collapse zone and work outward or on the other hand from the outside working in. This is bad both ways becuase you are going to run into leftover stock. What I need it to do is to walk in toward the wall from the outside (ie offsetting inward until it reaches the walls) I hope I am making myself clear. To clarify further, here's the method I use now to achieve this which is a bit of a roundabout way. I project a contour toolpath of the surface intersections with mutiple passes down onto the horizontal surfaces. Thanks in advance for your help Phil

A question for you: How tight are you making your tolerances in the 'total tolerance' box? And what filter ratio are you using? On surfaces with a large curvature you need a very small tolerance to get rid of the facets in the toolpath. I have to sometimes set a .0001 tolerance so I don't overburden our polishing guys. Another problem I've encountered is tool deflection with long ball cutters which creates steps in the surface if your finishing cut immediately follows the stepped roughing cut. I do semi-finish pass and then the finish pass is beautiful leaving no steps. Hope this helps, Phil

Couldn't resist this one. Thanks for all the hearty icons. Actually I owe it to you guys big time. This forum has been a godsend over the years, and I've gotten mucho valuable advice although I am not that frequent a participant. Thanks fellas! Phil

I just saved money on my Gieco car insurance! Phil

Iskander, I like it! Thanks very much for your time and effort:) I came up with that same approach using surface finish contour as well for ribbing as one of my examples portrays. Unfortunately my company uses Surfcam and they want me to switch. I Printed out your essay and I am reading it now. What I've read so far is really great and should be published. I also love the land of Israel and dream of coming some day. If it wasn;t for my job, family and bills and all that I would go there to help fight for Israel's survival. I am also reading "Hope" by Herman Wouk about the very same topic. Best Phil

Islander, Let me chime in here. I only stopped onto the board tonight for a few brief moments before doing some work, but you're post caught my attention. I'll print it out to read later when I have time. Last year when I had some more time to be on this board I struck up a friendship with Elad Sela who lives near Netanya. We were on the same page with regard to what American mideast foriegn policy should be which has a long way to go to cease buttering up Israel's hostile neighbors. It was just after the Passover bombing and he had the courage to go back to Netanya for a conference and for that matter go anywhere in his own land without fear. He was called up for the reserves a little while later and I have not heard from him since. Have you? That's all. Looking forward to reading the piece. Best, Phil