As a former user of Mazatrol (and someone who knows it quite well), I am of the opinion that the prime reason it is still much used and loved is because it keeps decision making at the machine. Mazaks are often run in job shops, where highly skilled and independent people program and run their own parts. They want a drawing, some tooling, and a paycheque. (Check for the Yanks). Other than that, they want to be left alone to work. They do not want a programmer, a setup sheet, or a guy in the office deciding on a depth of cut or grade of insert. Do I think Mastercam is the more effective way of programming these machines? Absolutely. The trick is to give enough control to the guys on the machines so that they don't feel like button pushers. That is difficult to do if you don't get to do your own programming. The reason the Mazatrol crowd resists CAM software is simply a fear of losing control to a programmer in the office, and losing prestige, pay, and job satisfaction. Running a CAM system is far better for the company financially. Doing your own programming on the machine instead of someone handing it to you is more satisfying to the shop guys, those who want to feel like machinists rather than operators. Can't please them all.....

I think there is one important piece of information that is being missed here. Mastercam's HighFeed feature is NOT the same thing as high speed options on controllers. The high speed controllers use look-ahead to detect sharp (non tangent) moves in the toolpath, and adjust feedrates internally to compensate for the abrupt direction changes. This enables you to program higher feed rates, since the machine slows down on inside corners or sharp turns. Mastercam's HighFeed is meant to maintain an even load on the tool (chipload). It is set to accelerate feed during smaller cuts, and slow down in heavier cuts. This cannot be done by the machine's controller, since it doesn't know where the stock is and how much material you are currently removing. You could be cutting .5 deep and plowing through solid material, or skimming .05 material radially (still.5 deep.) Your machine does not know the difference, but MC will and can adjust feedrates accordingly.

Have your dealer contact me directly. thanks

That's what we discovered recently as well. Busellato with Genesis on the controller takes max 2000 lines. (PC Based control) I can't see the logic in that, but I am just a dumb sales monkey.

Have you tried contacting the dealer that you purchased Mastercam from? http://www.woodweb.com/forum_fdse_files/cnc/264517.html We do have a working post for Busellato machines. [ 08-08-2003, 11:01 AM: Message edited by: Peter Eigler ]

All lathe threading cycle chamfers refer to the "pull off" at the end of the thread. I.E. if you have no thread relief groove, you should pull off at an angle. If there is a groove, then a straight move in X axis makes more sense. You would probably be better off using the G76 threading cycle

I have a new signature, what do you think?

Getting used to a new interface might take time for long time MC users. However, this is secondary in importance, compared to the urgent need to remain competitive in the market. Mastercam needs to "look" modern in order to keep up with some of our competitors, such as Edgecam, Esprit, etc. Mastercam already has a lot of great functionality, but it needs to appeal to new users who often buy on impulse and first impressions rather than taking the time to learn about functionality (where MC tends to shine). Getting used to a new interface is well worth the benefit of modernizing the appearance of the product, therefore increasing sales and generating more revenue for improvements and advancements. These improvements benefit us all. [ 06-21-2003, 08:29 PM: Message edited by: Peter Eigler ]

He is a big fan of German and Belgian beers, so he can't be a bad guy!

Lately there have been numerous questions on the forum dealing with CNC concepts, rather than Mastercam specific questions. For newbies to CNC machining, or those folks who wish to learn about G code programming theory and practice, I would like to recommend the excellent book by Peter Smid called CNC Programming Handbook. Of the 15 or so books I have read on CNC, none match its' thorough and insightful coverage of how CNC machines interpret programs. Anyone interested in mill or lathe programming would benefit from this book. It is a great reference for students and old button pushers alike. www.industrialpress.com

Tool offset and geometry offset are the same thing in lathes. You might be referring to pre-programming the tool position after tool change, instead of using the geometry offset screen. Older machines (or newer machines with old operators) tend to use G50 with each tool call i.e G50 X6.00 Z5.550 to tell the machine where the tool tip is in relation to origin. On any lathe newer than 1983 or so, you do not need to do this any more. Instead you can enter the tool offset in the geometry screen, along with wear values, TNR value, and tool direction value.

I have used Mazatrol extensively on mills, lathes and the Integrex. After learning MC, I will never even look at it again. I realize that this doesn't help you, but keep in mind that what Camaix is trying to do is improve upon a bad situation. Mazatrol is 20 year old technology, grossly overpriced, and very limited. Mazatrol is invented for people who don't know true CNC programming and need to make parts quickly. While effective for simple work, it is nowhere as powerful as even entry level Mastercam. Have you tried using the Camaix post to output longhand programs instead of cycles and subs? I have looked at the Mazatrol output and it is not bad at all.

Mold 100, I live 500 ft. from Lake Simcoe and can tell you that the rumors are true. We munch on freshwater drum, put carp on the BBQ, and especially enjoy mixing pumpkinseed and ling in the meatgrinder to produce hamburgers. Walleye and perch are so common that we need to use them as fertilizer in our gardens, otherwise the poor carp and suckers don't have room to spawn. You must try poached sucker with HP Sauce, basted in Canadian Maple Syrup, EH!

My cars have been more modern, since I just didn't connect with cars built before I was born. I had a bunch of 5.0 mustangs in the late 80's. Fast but no real personality. My all time favorite cars were my Pontiac Fieros. Laugh all you want, but I had small bock V8s as well as one with a 3800 Supercharged V6 out of a Bonneville. 1988 Pontiac Fiero GT, 3800 S/C engine, 12.55 on a quarter mile, and still over 30 mpg with air conditioning!

As a fellow newbie to 3D machining, I relied heavily on the tutorial books from In House Solutions (hint, hint) as well as the excellent work of Charles Davis in the form of the Mastercam Programming Handbook, volume 2. This forum is also an invaluable resource.

Artcam has a nice greyscale feature, which apparently determines Z depth based on color. You simply specify minimum and maximum Z, white being Z0 and black being Maximum Z depth. Artcam also has some texturing capabilities. With that said, I think it is very limited. The CAD capabilities are almost non-existent, and the toolpath control is primitive at best. It is a decent package for very specific applications such as sign making or jewellery making, but not great for any type of precision work. Artcam costs about as much as Mastercam with Engraving. Other than the greyscale feature which is very nice, Mastercam is a far more powerful package for the money.

Thanks for the reply. I think that I will encourage them to mill the entire thread instead of roughing it with a lathe tool. The machine is a twin spindle/twin turret Mazak lathe with live tooling, so it should be possible to mill the sucker. Peter

I think what Charles is suggesting is that MC start distributing copies that students CAN take home, as well as use at school. Only the teacher HASP needs to have the capacity to post files to a fully functional level. If students can play with MC at home, save files, but not have full posting capability, they will be pretty happy and there will be far less pirate MC in schools because there will be less demand for it.

Mackius, try to be more specific and less critical. "Mastercam Sucks" won't help anyone. Are you talking about mill or lathe plunging? 2D or 3D? What controller programs plunging "faster" than MC??

Has anyone tried cutting variable pitch (lead) threads using MC Lathe? I could not come up with any examples. The application is a feed screw that needs to be roughed out with grooving tools prior to being milled to size. Any experiences would be appreciated. Peter

I have taught at several colleges in the past few years, and have found that MC is handed out like candy between students. Many of these students are either not yet in the trade or unemployed, and most of them have noly a basic understanding of MC/G-code/Machining. They want something to practice with at home, so that they become proficient and hopefully add value to their resumes. I handed out some Demo Mastercam CDs recently at a college and they were snapped up. Most students do not need the ability to post, and this function need not be included on the CD. Being able to save files for 6 months would be very nice, though, and lessen the demand for hacked software. I have come to know many (former) pirate users in the past year, and have even become friends with a few of them. With the right apporach, many of them can be converted. By using a pro-active approach in schools, much of it can also be prevented in the future. I believe the key lies in access: 1.) Allowing easier access to MC Demo CDs to students at schools, trade shows, etc. At $5 or $10 a pop, people will jump at it. 2.) Making access to good working posts more difficult in the future. It is too late for V9, but this is something to perhaps consider for V10.

What I meant by "dealing with pirates" is that I run into shops every week that run pirated MC. Instead of turning around and throwing my hands up in the air, I have a few strategies to deal with them and have had decent success. I would be happy to discuss these strategies with other resellers if they are interested. Hackers don't know posts, won't know the difference between Fanuc 18M and 6M, Heidenhain conversational or ISO. They hack software, and as soon as it is done, they are proud of themselves and move to the next project. Many of the options in Mastercam that require additional codes do NOT work in hacked software, since the hacker does not realize they are there. A hacker is generally not a machinist and has no need or use for a post. I believe that by making posts much more difficult to obtain, we can at least cut down on the number of pirate copies of Mastercam used in shops. Another strategy is to give away MC Demo CDs at schools that teach Mastercam. The origin of most pirated software in machine shops is the local trade school. If students can obtain a demo version of MC (again, they don't need a fully functioning post), there will be less demand for hacked MC.

There will hopefully be a Service Pack dealing with the concerns raised with the release of V9.1. Let's remember to send bugs to [email protected]

I am currently involved in dealings with several pirate shop users, and have had a fairly good success rate in converting them to legitimate users. One primary deterrent would be the encryption of posts, and not including them on the install CDs. Also, keep in mind that contrary to popular belief, police do take software piracy seriously, and the onus is on the victims to file complaints. Sitting around and whining about it does nothing. Any reseller who wants to discuss strategies in dealing with pirates, feel free to write me at [email protected]

I am proposing that in future releases, the Highfeed function should base the Material Removal Rate on the Feed/speed and depth of cut of the specific operation instead of a set value in the tool parameter page. If I am taking .200 depth of cut rather than .100 depth of cut, my material removal rate has changed drastically, even though the same feed and RPM is programmed. Ideally, the High Feed option should interrogate the operation to find the specific material removal rate FOR THAT OPERATION (not the tool), and use that as a basis for optimization.