88Matt, what you're describing is the basis for "positive tool offsetting". You create a 'relativity' between the machines. You really don't have to have a 'Master Machine' to do this. You just need a standardized form (or setup) to aquire your tool lengths from. What Concepttool is doing works great from a single machine stand point but makes it tough to move/utilize the same tooling in another machine because you have no idea what the 'gage length' of T1 is. On top of that, the rest of the tools are set relative to this particular T1. Don't get me wrong, what he's doing works, just a "different way". You only need to establish your standard. From there you can set all of your tool lengths for any given machine. Just use the work offsets to adjust. If you can use multiple work offsets (G54-G59, G54.1 etc) then its easy. Another thing I've done is to actually set the grid of each machine the same. If you have a bunch of similar or the same model machines, you can shift the grid parameters so that all of these machines have the same X, Y, and Z point at a specific place on the table. Now, not only is the tool length standardized, but so is your work since the part position is now the same on all machines. Makes having modular setups even that much more efficient. You can setup and/or move fixtures and tools to any machine and not have to pick up any offsets.

quote: The rub lies when u have a machine (like Mazak) that doesn't. As I have been saying though, it does. All Mazaks will. It only depends on whether you're using Tool Data or Tool Offset page(s) to pull the info. So 88Matt, you can G10 just about anything relating to the tool. Are you using an external presetter? If so, many of these can be "wired" to the control to upload tool parameters directly without having to create a G10 program.

Seems to me its 'seasonal'. 'Bout this time last year there was a rash of them too. It is "hunting season"....

If you're using the Fanuc post that was included with the install CD, then you should have this line under 'General Output Settings' in your post: force_wcs : yes$ #Force WCS output at every toolchange?

There is a CD switch under 'Work System' for coordinate selection. But I think it works for type of offsetting (G92, home position, G54 etc.). For what you're looking for, many posts will have a switch in it like "force_wcs" or something. Some are forced by hardwriting it in at "ptoolchg" or "ptlchg". Like Stork says, "check your post"...

Interesting.... haven't seen tool length done like that in a long time. Also, by the way you're describing the use of offsets, it sounds like the machine you were using didn't have extended offsetting for tools so you have no 'wear' columns. But even in this instance though, you could still use positive offsetting and eliminate the need for calculating the differences in tool lenths. And/or if you were to use the other "old school" method, and just touched off all of the tools to the part, then G54 could just remain at zero. At that point, if any adjustments were made to G54, all of the tools will still follow without having to figure the differences in tool length. All of this extra work could be eliminated though if you use positive offsetting for tools. Then when the part changes, program changes or the tool changes, theres no figuring that needs to be done at tool offsets.

quote: Tool Auto Measure (1.2.3.4.5) cycle start and walk away. Tool Semi Measure (IE: 3" Face Mill) Diameters are real and easy to use in Mazatrol in particular. The tool measuring is fully or semi automatic. The tool lengths are accurate and any measured tool can be used to establish a G54 "Z". This usually requires that the longest tool be used in an Eia program and that all subsequent tools be measured against such a reference tool as negative numbers. Jack/Jay, this isn't totally correct or I'm not understanding what you're getting at here. You can do all of this in EIA offsetting as well and not have to use tool data. Have been for more years than I can count. You can use tool auto measure and semi measure in EIA. You can pick up G54 with any measured tool in EIA and have all positive offsetting. G43 grabs tool lengths in EIA,... even use "tool break checks" in the program automatically in EIA. quote: One other problem with a Mazak mill is that a G54 will remain constant at power up. Change the value and you will need to shut down and repower the machine otherwise the operator must constantly override the value of "z" for every subsequent tool length measure using feeler gages and calculators. Totally lost here..... Never, ever have had to do this... No offense Jack, just not sure about what you're saying... quote: I have a question... When using wear how to you keep track of tool size at the control? The same way you do now. The "minor" adjustments are just that,... against the cutting size or radius of the tool. In control/centerline programming, you just have the nominal radius already included in the offset value.

Jay, in this case (Mazatrol Tool Data usage), 'reverse wear' won't solve the problem. Mazatrol tool data uses "Actual Diameter" for the tool. Then when a G41/G42 is read, the machine will comp/calculate the radius from that. In mazatrol format, the machine asks for left or right cutting so normal cutting without comp is not an issue. But in EIA/ISO, this could could be a problem when turning comp on/off in the cut. Which is why you "have to" program in 'control, otherwise your tool centerlines will always be a tool radius off. Brian, there is another possible way around this though. If you're going to stick with using Tool Data you can still program in MC using 'wear' by doing this. Now, this is according to the programming book and I haven't actually tried this myself. You can still use a "D" value even though you're using Tool Data. What the machine will (should) do from there is that it will calculate the difference between the tool radius (from Tool Data Actual Diameter) and add/subtract from it the value in the "D" offset. So, with this in mind, you could actually sub-program a set of offsets using G10 for running in the Mazak and still be able to use the same program for the Haas. Just don't read the G10 sub in the Haas. Now, you should be able to program with 'Wear' in MC and still be able to run it in either machine. Just remember to always have 'Wear' on for every toolpath in MC (like you would with 'control'). Other wise you'll have some pretty heavy cuts here and there... But, like I said, I've never actually tried this so I don't know what effect this might have. I would have to change parameters on a machine to use Tool Data to try out this theory.

quote: Just run your Mazak in EIA/ISO format, then it will accept negative offsets. I think he is. The only thing is that they are using Tool Data for values instead of the tool offsets page. In Tool Data, you can't input any negative values for comp. This is what Mazatrol uses for values in programming since its conversational and thats what makes it 'control' type ( or centerline ) programming. This is why I suggested to change that and use the Offsets page instead. I'm all for programming in wear for all of the same reasons that others here are. I'm used to it enough that I can figure out "where I'm at" easy enough. If the program has to be changed that drastically where the operator has to change a bunch of cutter paths, then IMO, I need to reprogram it in MC because I really screwed up somewhere. quote: ... and the operator can change cutter without the programmer having to retouch the program. You can do this in wear also. I can hardly remember the last shop I was at that still programmed in control. quote: As a shopwide standard, be sure to choose one and stick with it. Makes it easier for operators to set up and maintain machines. I can go along with this though. I think it can avoid some possible confusion and "silly human errors". Never had any problems with positive comp on a Mazak. Not any more than other controls anyway. And Mazatrol on a mill?... Forget it. I think its worthless and not smart enough even with tweaking the TPC unless the part is simple. On a lathe though, only Mazatrol. Even on lathe/mills like the Integrex I'd use mazatrol with the exception to 3D mill paths or other "complicated" pocket routines.

Don't use tool data. Any reason why you have to? I'm not particular to tool data unless of course, the program is in mazatrol.

quote: Wear only. Control is "Old School" and can be limiting in some uses. Next opinion coming up shortly. Next opinion coming up shortly...

If all of your settings are correct in the file but you're still not getting comp to output, you may have a switch or a setting in your post thats not allowing for comp, .... or it may have been removed. Check your post file for a possible switch at top and/or post the code under " sccomp " or " pccdia ".

Kind of says alot... or is that a little?

In case no one has the answer here..... I'll be nice and let you know that there is a Gibbscam Forum.

If I get this, your spring pass is conventional cutting? quote: No on the direction change, you would have copy the geometry and reverse to direction on the second one to achieve this I'm with John here. quote: if i put feed plane at zero , retract off, clearance off for both contour it does the job but now the tool enters the workpiece straight to the lead in and does not pull out when both cut is finished. This may not necessarily be "proper", but you can control this some by using the "Ref point" button. It allows you to set an approach and retract points for before and after cuts. Sure could use that Toolpath Editor...

I did a search but couldn't find it..... But you are correct Bryan, I changed the setting to "file" (instead of "to screen") and it created the report. Thanks!!

I have one post that I was writing from scratch for a HMC. At the same time creating the MD and CD data and files. Somewhere along the line, something I changed in either the CD or the post itself, is causing the post block (or the window durring posting) to show "initializing: ..... .... .. " with several different blocks being "initialized" one after another. So far, I haven't seen any error in the g-code, but I'm trying to chase down what the posting process is initializing. It goes by them so fast, I can't read the blocks. I caught and fixed a few but can't read them all. Is there a way or is there somewhere that this info gets saved on what is being "initialized"? I want to clean up the post or CD before I run into problems.

Yep, I hope they are on it. On top of having many different requirements for machines, we've also got a dozen plus programmers. That just throws another wrench in this. The only "fix" so far is to create 7 or 8 different "users" on each workstation with the defaults set for each different machine. That ain't gonna cut it either. I've already got a desktop full of icons. Yeah, you could just "manually" change it everytime you bring up a different MD, but that getting to be a PITA. The CD is there so you don't have to but it doesn't work. I (or the operator) are catching stuff all the time because whenever I do a quick fix or update a program, the data isn't correct to the machine and the code comes out bad. Edit, edit, edit, edit....

Mark, actually, we did talk about this some in a previous thread here. Look at Bob Hedrick's (from CNC) last post: quote: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And, this is also where the Machine Group Properties has problems. Some of the stuff will not stick from the defaults. In particular the "Tool Settings/Toolpath Configuration" stuff. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We're working on this one... -------------------- Bob Hedrick - Software Engineer The solution you got works for you but doesn't work for me. I need the settings from the Control Defs to stick with each MD. I have too many machines with different requirements to do it "your way". I hope CNC is "still working on this". I have sent this some time ago to them as well but still no response.

Here, Try this link.

What post are you using? Normally, you'll find them under ptlchg, pretract, or peof. Of course, by "annex" I think you're looking to "add" these lines to your post? So, you need something like this?: pbld, n, "G28", "X0.", "Y0.", protretinc, e (This is a postline from MPMaster in the peof. This doesn't post "exactly" as you have written but that can be tweaked).

Are you talking about surface paths? Or just incremental settings in general cuts? Surface paths do that in using adjustments to "cut depths", but it did that in V9 too. Not sure why, seems backwards to me.

Not sure of what material you're cutting but... Destiny Tool has neck relieved tooling of up to 6.0 LBS in the catalog and on the their shelves, ready to ship.

What post are you using? My first guess is that your post is 'forcing' coolant output in your NC motion statements.... plinout, pcirout, pdrillout etc...

As far as letters are concerned, you have a basically limitless amount of possibilities. You can use any text, font, size etc available to engrave. I do a lot of engraving of many different types without problems. What do you mean by unclean results? Maybe you're having a speed/feed issue? corners getting chopped? What are the problems?