MATSUURA H Plus-405

[?Mark]

It's a top 2 contender for purchase.

The good, the bad and the ugly.

All opinions welcome

 

TIA

[Newbeeee™]

A mate runs a couple and reckons they're stunning.

They also have A H300 (a bit too small for jobbing work) and 630's

The only real problem they have ever had was on the 630's. After the brakes went on in 2008, the machines were off for a while and when they went back on, the auto grease lube system had solidified which no-one knew about until it was too late...

I really don't know why manufacturers put that on. Can't beat oil imo (and a skimmer of course ).

[THEE THAINZ™]

^^^^ And don't forget if you can afford it, a coalescer  ^^^^

[MIL-TFP-41]

Make damn sure you get the micro-fine conveyor. The stock one Methods used to use is a worthless hunk of sh!t. Get all 240 tools right off the bat. Will save you $$$ down the road. Augers...also a must have. I believe now that Matsuura is importing all their own machines they are standard....

 

20K or 12K spindle? Both are solid. We have the 20K version.

 

The biggest PITA about the machine is the stupid a$$ 3 position safety switch. Only allowing you to certain things with the switch in certain positions. Once you get used to it its not that bad....but compared to our 630 its a PITA.

 

All in all the machine is way solid. Visibility of the spindle as you are running is the best I have seen on any horizontal.

[?Mark]

Thanks guys, good info!

It'd be a 20k spindle with 520 tools. Also pallet pool PC12 vs linear pallet pool. Any opinions on that?

 

TIA

[MIL-TFP-41]

The stacker 12 pallet pool is pretty cool. We must be getting quotes for very similar machines....

 

only downside to the 12 pallet stacker vs the 17 pallet linear pool is being able to add machines to the cell. At one point we were looking into adding an H-Plus405 to our MAM-72 63V linear pool...expanding to 28 pallets???....decided it was going to be too much of a PITA to do. Would of had to relocate the MAM in order to do so.

[Sticky]

Is the Hplus405 going to be around for much longer? I would guess not. Not an issue if you are doing the PC12 rotary stocker, but if you go linear and plan to add a machine this would be an important piece of info.

[?Mark]

Good point, they've been making them forever...

Hmm..

[Sticky]

Good point, they've been making them forever...

Hmm..

 

Not as much that as the fact they are pushing their new Quaser made Hplus400, and Hplus500 machines. Not to say they are bad, there aren't many in the field so it's early to say how good those machines will be, BUT I would check to see if they will be compatible with your needs if you have plans for expansion.

[?Mark]

How old do you think are their MAM72-63 and-35?

We don't want to get something that could be obsolete in a couple of years...

 

Mori seems to be spitting out a new model almost every year lately.

[Sticky]

The 35v is based on the 1vs design from 1991. But it has gone through about 3 revisions since then.

 

You would need to contact Matsuura and see how long they plan on keeping the 405 for. Being that it is in between their Hplus400 and Hplus500, I can only guess they intend to phase it out. There is a shop not far from here (P&J Aerospace) that just invested in 2 of the new Matsuura/Quaser built Hplus500's with a big fastems system. They had a 2 machine Mam700 cell for a long time and ran it pretty much 24/7 since the late 90's. It would seem they should be plenty knowledgeable enough to decide that taking the first two machines of a new model in the country was going to work for them.

[Newbeeee™]

I knew Matsuura wanted Quaser to build their Hori's, but I thought it was a Matsuura designed hori they wanted them to build.

I just looked at the Quaser website and see that their HX404 has the same travels as the Matsuura H+400.

Granted the pallet door looks 'Matsuura', but I guess that's tinwork only.

So my next guess is that it is a Quaser, but with some Matsuura tinwork, paint, probably spindle and software loaded onto the control.

My last guess is that Matsuura will phase out the 405 and only continue designing and building 5 axis.

That said, they know how to integrate pallet stackers etc, and this alone is worth a lot.

And Quasers are good machines.

[MIL-TFP-41]

Tough to speculate on. The 405 is basically a 40 taper 500mm pallet. The 500 is a 50 taper 500mm...so maybe they will keep both? I am not sure which generation of the 405 is current. I don't think they always had a direct drive 4th axis on them so its a safe bet that there are at least 2 generations of the machines out there.

 

As far as companies like Mori coming out with new models every year or 2....that scares me more than comforts me. Refine what you got rather than reinventing the wheel every 2 years. Better controls, electronics, hardware adapted to a tried and true design = a new generation of machine. Reinvent the wheel every year or 2....5 years down the road you have 30 models of the machine you gotta support. Could make repairs/service/finding parts a royal PITA.

[?Mark]

All good info, thank you all!

 

 

A bit off topic:

Matsuura 5-axis fanuc vs siemens control?

 

Which is the best fit for high speed aluminium surfacing and 5axis toolpaths?

[Sticky]

Accuracy and speed, I'd put my money on Siemens. Not saying the Fanuc is a slouch though.

 

But for support and maintenance in North America, I don't think I'd take Siemens. Unless you German is very good and you can make friends with someone at Siemens, your not likely to get much help when you run into problems.

[dstryr]

I have 2 of the cheaper 828d (Quaser machines ) and have found the best support guy at Siemens. Very knowledgeable and usually has answers for me in 24 hours. Before when I was dealing with the factory and waiting for replies.....I was not too happy. I do love the control though. Very easy for me to teach people how to use and the std options are very nice. I just bought Renishaw Axiset as well and have it blending very very well. It is way better than the Fanuc machines I have in the shop for surfacing as well (besides the NH5000 31i but thats a different league of machine)

[MIL-TFP-41]

If its an 840Di with a Siemens controller and Yasnac drives....run the other way as fast as you can. While being an excellent control the support behind it sucks. Sucks. Sucks. 10 years ago it was the fastest control around. The latest Fanuc has finally caught up to it.

 

Siemens and Yaskawa teamed up back in the day...built the control. Few years go by and the 2 companies got into a p1ssing match. Yaskawa dumped everything into Siemens lap. Guess how much fun it is to get support for a Yaskawa product that is serviced by Siemens?

 

Never again will I look at a machine that uses a hybrid system like that.

 

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

 

 

[Guest]

I've always had trouble getting good support on Seimens products.Of curse the kind of help I need can probably nly be answered by a few people in the country so... but still. The work Matsuura has don on tuning the FANUC has made the 30 series a VERY impressive control now.

 

As far as raw speed, I did a test last year on 5-Axis and the FANUC beat the Seimens handily. :

[MIL-TFP-41]

Foggy...is the Matsuura Siemens still a hybrid of Siemens and Yaskawa?

[Guest]

Foggy...is the Matsuura Siemens still a hybrid of Siemens and Yaskawa?

I have not seen the latest iteration so I don't know for certain. Siemens is only available on certain models now. Mold and die machines specifically IIRC.