Question for people who use Wire and Mill

[JParis]

33 minutes ago, volitan71 said:

I've been given kind of a loose budget of $2k, I can stretch it a little if it would make a huge difference.

Do you guys have any recommendations? 

I guess my biggest question is would you sacrifice a little CPU speed for a better graphics card? 

I know to stay away from Geforce,  That's about all I know right now.

Thank you!!

 

Eek, that's not gonna get you too much past where you're already at...

You might want to look at the Dell Refurb store online....off lease computers, you can sometimes get more power for you buck than buying brand new...

[crazy^millman]

1 hour ago, volitan71 said:

I've been given kind of a loose budget of $2k, I can stretch it a little if it would make a huge difference.

Do you guys have any recommendations? 

I guess my biggest question is would you sacrifice a little CPU speed for a better graphics card? 

I know to stay away from Geforce,  That's about all I know right now.

Thank you!!

 

Hum I was working at at different shops about 25 years and 15 years ago and both of those owners said the same thing to me. I went out and spent my own money on a system and showed them both how ignorant they were both being cheaping out. How much did that EDM cost? $750k maybe? He is asking you to use a system that is 1/350 the cost of the machine you are being asked to program. Tell him the work will take 350 time longer than it should because that is how much he values keeping the place running correctly. Sorry not trying to come across wrong, but you're being out in an extremely difficult position and yet being asked to work a miracle. Been there and done that and got plenty of scars trying that. Best of luck, but I would think Triple that might be enough in today's crazy world. 

[Mr. M]

You can get something for close to that price on the Dell Outlet site. Remember that adding/replacing ram is pretty easy so make sure the video card and processer are up to snuff and upgrade the rest when you get it

https://outlet.us.dell.com/ARBOnlineSales/Online/InventorySearch.aspx?c=us&cs=28&l=en&s=dfb&brandid=2801&sign=PXhcOSHtr1T4IOw%2fPR7UdeDN5vNJYPW20YZmXUrl2KUa1uwyvFPkQswZ%2bGQ%2fRKZbIWeeHap%2fCghPxeLTlJFGQpJZLFtJBhx3MAPIvskVG80%2fD3%2fOqsl%2b7mgXod3ntI0O5xPVSaZgldN85k6mMAaD2RH0cjvndydui%2b2Z1NZH5AJTRQ%2fHi%2fEIBOInxZzfv0SjC%2fmirH1ZHDS1qXt5A%2fAstPX9ZfLHinJjLJFkTGdDB1VeWiXNVi8jGk5Hq2eRott7ihJQsojK6Xbo2pmIKvThe7AUcryGzsMHXepUxKSAvO8MiNDRU4yGCi38zFjGVUGNsxasmfw%2boPQzv7II%2fJN9AqYs8OKvXruwDuw62s3rPcJpGbcErezx1%2bJXwmORy8fBF%2bAot9NERKZejvcs%2bKK%2fK%2bi8IN5PH4Rdaeshi7BNqqCTbrtiaEnQf7dKEcFnXIHO0LHlxBZxYUH0kuqf1yYvNmJ0BmyAM7DXkFQ3BwkN9cb238lbLepoEN1RPDfQfaNbbPD7fOMSyQk%3d

[volitan71]

15 hours ago, Mr. M said:

You can get something for close to that price on the Dell Outlet site. Remember that adding/replacing ram is pretty easy so make sure the video card and processer are up to snuff and upgrade the rest when you get it

https://outlet.us.dell.com/ARBOnlineSales/Online/InventorySearch.aspx?c=us&cs=28&l=en&s=dfb&brandid=2801&sign=PXhcOSHtr1T4IOw%2fPR7UdeDN5vNJYPW20YZmXUrl2KUa1uwyvFPkQswZ%2bGQ%2fRKZbIWeeHap%2fCghPxeLTlJFGQpJZLFtJBhx3MAPIvskVG80%2fD3%2fOqsl%2b7mgXod3ntI0O5xPVSaZgldN85k6mMAaD2RH0cjvndydui%2b2Z1NZH5AJTRQ%2fHi%2fEIBOInxZzfv0SjC%2fmirH1ZHDS1qXt5A%2fAstPX9ZfLHinJjLJFkTGdDB1VeWiXNVi8jGk5Hq2eRott7ihJQsojK6Xbo2pmIKvThe7AUcryGzsMHXepUxKSAvO8MiNDRU4yGCi38zFjGVUGNsxasmfw%2boPQzv7II%2fJN9AqYs8OKvXruwDuw62s3rPcJpGbcErezx1%2bJXwmORy8fBF%2bAot9NERKZejvcs%2bKK%2fK%2bi8IN5PH4Rdaeshi7BNqqCTbrtiaEnQf7dKEcFnXIHO0LHlxBZxYUH0kuqf1yYvNmJ0BmyAM7DXkFQ3BwkN9cb238lbLepoEN1RPDfQfaNbbPD7fOMSyQk%3d

 

Thank you for taking the time to search that out!

I'm going to go with that Dell Outlet if they don't let me build my own. In order to get more bang for their buck I submitted a request to put one together for around $2k, from Newegg and Amazon  which would have:

12th gen core i7

32 gigs ram

1 tb ssd drive

and a PNY Quadro P2000 with 5 gigs of ram.

We'll see what happens. I believe the biggest issue with my current system is the Geforce card. Our resellers website specifically lists Geforce as one to avoid for Mastercam, and specifically states a Quadro as one they've seen the best performance from. I looked back at old emails and in 2017 I asked for a Quadro because Mastercam was actually crashing at certain times and our reseller logged on to my PC and said the video card was the culprit. IT had this one laying around I guess and wanted to try it first. It worked! I couldn't complain. It's just not up to the task anymore as of MCAM 2022.

 

[Simon Kausch]

On 7/6/2022 at 2:11 PM, volitan71 said:

I've been given kind of a loose budget of $2k, I can stretch it a little if it would make a huge difference.

Do you guys have any recommendations? 

I guess my biggest question is would you sacrifice a little CPU speed for a better graphics card? 

I know to stay away from Geforce,  That's about all I know right now.

Thank you!!

 

Don't sacrifice CPU speed for anything.

I'm still interested how much difference a Quadro and Geforce makes. Quadros have more VRAM (I never use much VRAM in Mastercam) and more CUDA performance, both things 3D and video rendering really benefits from but I don't see how that's helping Mastercam.

And unless I open massive assemblies my graphics card never sees a lot of usage in the task manager while my CPU is maxed out calculating toolpaths.

I'm not saying it's wrong to buy Quadro's but would like to know more details why they're better. Does anyone have a good benchmark file or anything? I have a Quadro at work and a Geforce rtx 2060S at home.

 

[gcode]

16 minutes ago, Simon Kausch said:

I'm not saying it's wrong to buy Quadro's but would like to know more details why they're better.

 

Quadro's support OpenGL, GeForce cards do not

[JParis]

1 minute ago, gcode said:

Quadro's support OpenGL, GeForce cards do not

^^^^^^^^^ding ding sing ding ding^^^^^^^^^^^^

We have a winner!!

[volitan71]

4 minutes ago, gcode said:

 

Quadro's support OpenGL, GeForce cards do not

This GeForce seems to support OpenGL and OpenCL

 

*edit* only up to 4.6 it seems. Maybe they dropped it in later cards?

I hope they factor in the time I'm wasting looking into this stuff and tell me to just buy what I want.

[Simon Kausch]

6 minutes ago, gcode said:

 

Quadro's support OpenGL, GeForce cards do not

I've used OpenGL renderers on a Geforce before, it's just that Nvidia supports the Quadros more in that direction (faster driver updates for new OpenGL versions). I know it made a big difference 10 years ago but does it still?

[gcode]

3 minutes ago, volitan71 said:

This GeForce seems to support OpenGL and OpenCL

I believe GeForce OpenGL support is via software emulation

Quadro OpenGL supports OpenGL via hardware

Way back in the day you could hack Geforce cards to emulate Quadro cards

but it was a waste of time. The Geforce card just identified as a Quadro with no actual performance gains

The GeForce/Quadro debate has been going on for about 20 years.

The difference in speed and stability is real.

You are not saving $$$ buying the GeForce. You may save some $$$ with your initial purchase,

but you will give it back daily via degraded performance, graphics glitches and crashes.

 

[Colin Gilchrist]

Disable GPU processing

Select to disable the use of the computer GPU during simulation. The GPU can greatly improve simulation performance, especially when simulating large toolpaths. However, older computers may not support GPU processing and this can result in slowdowns.

There is an option on the Simulation Topic page of the System Configuration dialog box, which allows you to disable GPU processing for Simulation. You won't see your graphics card pegging while calculating toolpaths, but you may see it spike when running Verify or Simulation, if this checkbox is not checked. This is only available in 2023, so they are making some progress in using the Graphics Card GPU for certain calculations.

 

 

[gcode]

5 minutes ago, Simon Kausch said:

I know it made a big difference 10 years ago but does it still?

even more so today

I'm running an RTX4000 at home and it is way faster than the Quadro 4000 I used to run, especially in Verify and Machine Simulation

 

[volitan71]

9 minutes ago, gcode said:

I believe GeForce OpenGL support is via software emulation

Quadro OpenGL supports OpenGL via hardware

Way back in the day you could hack Geforce cards to emulate Quadro cards

but it was a waste of time. The Geforce card just identified as a Quadro with no actual performance gains

The GeForce/Quadro debate has been going on for about 20 years.

The difference is speed and stability is real.

You are not saving $$$ buying the GeForce. You may save some $$$ with your initial purchase,

but you will give it back daily via degraded performance, graphics glitches and crashes.

 

 

You know... Sometimes but not often, when I Verify, the stock model doesn't show up. It's just blank space. I'll close verify and reopen it and it's there.

Also, when I resize a bunch of wireframe holes at once with the new "Propagate" button, sometimes only the first one I picked will redraw at the new size. They'll all analyze at the new size but they will still appear at their original size unless I reload the file. That's if it doesn't crash outright and force Mastercam to restart. I'm interested to see how much of this is because of the system I'm running.

10 minutes ago, gcode said:

even more so today

I'm running an RTX4000 at home and it is way faster than the Quadro 4000 I used to run, especially in Verify and Machine Simulation

 

So if I can pry another $100 from them, do you think I would be better off with an RTX-A2000 vs the Quadro P2000 I was hoping for?

[JParis]

3 minutes ago, volitan71 said:

RTX-A2000 vs the Quadro P2000

RTX-A2000

https://sysrqmts.com/gpus/compare/nvidia-quadro-p2000-vs-nvidia-rtx-a2000

 

[gcode]

4 minutes ago, volitan71 said:

So if I can pry another $100 from them, do you think I would be better off with an RTX-A2000 vs the Quadro P2000 I was hoping for?

Yes.. the RTX-A**** line is the newest generation

The P2000 is 2 (maybe 3???) generations older

[volitan71]

Awesome, thanks again.

 

Just spoke to my direct supervisor who has to sign off on this, and he asked why I spec'd an i7 instead of an i9, and why 32 gigs instead of 64? 

He seems to think it's worth it to spend more now, especially after I told him all these little glitches I deal with are likely a result of the system and not Mastercam itself.

Looks good....

[Mr. M]

I don't know about MasterCam, but SolidWorks performance is better on i7's vs i9's

[meatychips]

On 7/7/2022 at 7:40 AM, gcode said:

 

Quadro's support OpenGL, GeForce cards do not

this is absolutely incorrect.  Where the hell did you hear that?

[gcode]

47 minutes ago, meatychips said:

this is absolutely incorrect.  Where the hell did you hear that?

perhaps my info is dated

back in the day Geforce cards supported Open GL via a software emulator and did not play well with Mastercam.

At one point I spent a young fortune on a high end GeForce laptop and never got it running properly in Mastercam

I've stuck to Quadro cards since.  

[volitan71]

52 minutes ago, gcode said:

perhaps my info is dated

back in the day Geforce cards supported Open GL via a software emulator and did not play well with Mastercam.

At one point I spent a young fortune on a high end GeForce laptop and never got it running properly in Mastercam

I've stuck to Quadro cards since.  

 

This is from our resellers website:

 

[JParis]

Being with Service 4 Automation before they were bought by Cimquest and that inforamtion was transferred over.....we used to build systems and test them in the office regularly...

We simply found that the Quadro cards just performed better with fewer graphical issues.....as the load on the cards increased, the gamers would always come up short in a variety of ways...

I can tell you for certain, that specific information is dated but I will never deviate from my usual advice of "If you need to being running a CAD/CAM/CAE station, use a CAD/CAM/CAE designed card"

JM2C YMMV 

[Simon Kausch]

16 hours ago, volitan71 said:

 

This is from our resellers website:

 

The Geforce FX 5200 came out nearly 20 years ago.  So I don't know how recent these notes are.