Operation defaults messing up tool lengths and projections??

[amw]

Hi Guys, Im having an issue with setting up operation defaults, and then getting a different version of the tool I save. Anybody else ever see this? 

For a Drill cycle I select a 1/4" spot drill from my tool library. The tool is defined as 3" long, 2.0 projection and in an er16 holder. I save this as default and everything looks fine. But when i start a new file and select a drill cycle, I get a 1/4 spot drill thats only 0.5" long, 0.5" projection, and using the default holder. 

I have tried the same with a 3/8 spot drill and get same results (end up with a shorter tool). I have tried setting defaults by hitting save at the top of the toolpath parameter window, and also by going into machine group, files, libraries, operation defaults. Nothing seems to work. What am i doing wrong?

[Alien]

7 hours ago, amw said:

Hi Guys, Im having an issue with setting up operation defaults, and then getting a different version of the tool I save. Anybody else ever see this? 

For a Drill cycle I select a 1/4" spot drill from my tool library. The tool is defined as 3" long, 2.0 projection and in an er16 holder. I save this as default and everything looks fine. But when i start a new file and select a drill cycle, I get a 1/4 spot drill thats only 0.5" long, 0.5" projection, and using the default holder. 

I have tried the same with a 3/8 spot drill and get same results (end up with a shorter tool). I have tried setting defaults by hitting save at the top of the toolpath parameter window, and also by going into machine group, files, libraries, operation defaults. Nothing seems to work. What am i doing wrong?

Hi,

For  permanently setting you need made change in Machine Definition. All change you make in Machine Groupe only for current file.

Go to Machine_Machine Definition. In opened Machine Definition Manager select General Machine Parameter. 

From Tool/Material Library tab select your library and save.

Also check your Operation Defaults. Go to Machine_Control Definition, select Operation Defaults and make change in all types of op you need. 

This is many work but you need make it only ones. Save file and that's all.

Another and shorter way to do that from your toolpath op. Just click on the Save to Default button after setting up all parameters .

Good Luck!

I hope this help.

Sincerely,

Michael.

[amw]

Yes thats exactly what im doing. But when I start a new job, everything is right except the tool is now shorter? This is very frustrating. I need to use defaults to save time, and the holder always crashes in verify because the tool is too short! 

Have a look at these pics. First 2 pics are initial settings, then I hit save, and when starting a new job I get what is in the last 2 pics. I have also tried opening operating defaults by clicking Machine group, Files, Library, operation defaults and setting it from there but i get the same result. 

[JParis]

Try renaming your Op,defaults to OP.mcam...it's only a Mastercam file...

Then switch out the tool you want, save it, rename back to op.defaults

[amw]

18 hours ago, JParis said:

Try renaming your Op,defaults to OP.mcam...it's only a Mastercam file...

Then switch out the tool you want, save it, rename back to op.defaults

Thats great idea! I tried messing with that file. When I save the op defaults within mastercam its saving some things to the default file but not everything. 

I fixed up the default file to be exactly the way I wanted, opened it again a second time to be sure its exactly what I want. Then when I start a new file it goes back to default holder and the tool is modified to shorter. Also, i set a default depth of 0.030 for the spot drill, and that goes back to zero as well.

This is such a PITA. I probably have like 6-8 hrs spent on this problem trying to figure out what im doing wrong or finding a work around. But seems like this is just another bug with 2024. Man for what we pay for this software we really deserve better then this.  

[JParis]

DO you by chance have any back up software running on that directory?

[amw]

8 minutes ago, JParis said:

DO you by chance have any back up software running on that directory?

No nothing is messing with that file. I can open the default file directly in mastercam and everything shows up correctly. And its not like the wrong path/file is being specified because if i change to a new tool, it does show up when creating a new operation. just that the tool length has been changed, and its gone back to default holder. 

I just had a look at the pocket operation and thats doing same thing too. What a mess. 

 

[Colin Gilchrist]

I did some experimentation with the Defaults File. Looks like you can save a "Default Tool" to an operation, but not a "Default Tool Assembly".

I went through and replaced the Machine Definition and Tool Library inside the Defaults File, which will cause any "new Operation" you create to use the default tool assigned, but it will just grab the "Default Holder", which you can't really change.

I don't think this is a "bug" per se, but just an enhancement which needs to be made where if a Tool Assembly is assigned to a Default Operation Type in the Defaults File, that it actually pulls the Tool Assembly, not just the default tool.

Just to confirm > it isn't you!

[Colin Gilchrist]

I was able to use the Operations file (not Operation Defaults) to assign Tool Assemblies. This does create more work in your workflow though, as you now must "import" an Operation, instead of just clicking on a new Operation.

[amw]

43 minutes ago, Colin Gilchrist said:

I did some experimentation with the Defaults File. Looks like you can save a "Default Tool" to an operation, but not a "Default Tool Assembly".

I went through and replaced the Machine Definition and Tool Library inside the Defaults File, which will cause any "new Operation" you create to use the default tool assigned, but it will just grab the "Default Holder", which you can't really change.

I don't think this is a "bug" per se, but just an enhancement which needs to be made where if a Tool Assembly is assigned to a Default Operation Type in the Defaults File, that it actually pulls the Tool Assembly, not just the default tool.

Just to confirm > it isn't you!

 

Thanks for the help Colin. I could live with the default holders, as long as its saving the proper tool. But why are my tools becoming shorter? This makes no sense? And it messes up my verify with the short tools, I need to edit the tool every time. A normal length tool with a default holder and long projection would be fine for verify 95% of the time. 

Operation defaults are kind of useless the way they are right now. It would be quicker to just change to a library tool every time, and thats a big waste of time too. 

[So not a Guru]

On 1/5/2024 at 11:10 AM, amw said:

But why are my tools becoming shorter?

It only exports the stickout of the tool in the holder it was assigned to when you saved the default. I have no idea why, it's just another "feature"

[amw]

1 hour ago, So not a Guru said:

It only exports the stickout of the tool in the holder it was assigned to when you saved the default. I have no idea why, it's just another "feature"

That would be great if it did that. But in my case when I start a new operation I loose the holder (goes back to default) and end up with a completely different tool (way shorter) . 

 

[So not a Guru]

2 hours ago, amw said:

That would be great if it did that. But in my case when I start a new operation I loose the holder (goes back to default) and end up with a completely different tool (way shorter) . 

 

Yikes!

I haven't noticed that, but I have not used that function in the latest couple of MC versions.

[cruzila]

I think that using the default file for a Tool Library is not as intended by the workflow of the software. "It's only a guideline"   I open a new file and use the tool library to create my tools and select them in a new operation. The other way is to use the import feature or the new hole process.

Am I missing something?

[amw]

In older versions (like 10+years ago) I could choose a tool in the operation defaults and when I start a new file that operation would create that same tool. It is still doing that for me now, still creates the tool. But no matter what I try, I end up with a shorter tool, and 0.25" projection in a drill cycle. 

Its doing the same thing in a pocket cycle too, the tool created is shorter then the one saved. But its not shortened as much. I havent tried all the other operations... too depressing to go any further lol.  

Nobody else is having issues with this?

[amw]

Just thought I would post an update on this problem. I tried changing from update 2 to update 5 and im getting the exact same result. I did notice something strange tonight. No matter what length tool I save in the operation defaults, the new tool that is created has cutting length equal to the diameter, and overall length is equal to 2x diameter. For example if i click on the following operations, this is the tool that gets created:

Drill (1/4 spot drill) LOC = 0.25    OAL = 0.50

Pocket (3/8 endmill) LOC = 0.375     OAL = 0.750

Face (3" Facemill)  LOC = 3.0"     OAL = 6.0"

The operation default file is saving the correct info for the tool. But the tool that is created by the new operation is always 2xD long. Is anybody else having this issue?

[cruzila]

Defaults seems to be severely broken. Doesn't it delete all your viewsheets as well when you save to default? That was my discovery and a showstopper for me. Sticking with 23 for now.

[cruzila]

Just in case you are wondering about disappearing viewsheets

 

We have this in the system as R-35372. The equally annoying workaround is to save the file before saving to defaults. The viewsheets are still removed but reopening the file brings them back.

Jamie Mattison | Quality Control

Mastercam | 671 Old Post Road | Tolland, CT 06084"

[Aaron Eberhard]

Have any of you guys been in touch with qc about this?

[cruzila]

The "official" forum has been pretty quiet since the big changes.

[amw]

6 hours ago, cruzila said:

Defaults seems to be severely broken. Doesn't it delete all your viewsheets as well when you save to default? That was my discovery and a showstopper for me. Sticking with 23 for now.

Seems very broken for sure. Even the linking parameters are messed up. For example in my drill cycle, I save a default depth of -0.030" for my spot drill but the operation created is at 0.0. 

I dont use viewsheets personally so cant say for sure about that

 

[amw]

3 hours ago, oppocreaty said:

I did some experimentation with the Defaults File. Looks like you can save a "Default Tool" to an operation, but not a "Default Tool Assembly". 

Yeah someone else mentioned this. I can live with that. But in my case its creating a new tool thats much shorter! 

3 hours ago, Aaron Eberhard said:

Have any of you guys been in touch with qc about this?

I asked Inhouse solutions about it and they suggested that the projection issues were resolved in update 5. I tried update 5 with same result, it did not fix the problem. 

[Colin Gilchrist]

On 1/30/2024 at 2:29 PM, oppocreaty said:

I did some experimentation with the Defaults File. Looks like you can save a "Default Tool" to an operation, but not a "Default Tool Assembly". 

This was my discovery as well.

[JParis]

2 minutes ago, Colin Gilchrist said:

This was my discovery as well.

It's a spammer.....already reported 

 

Notice the links hidden in the ___

 

[Colin Gilchrist]

7 minutes ago, JParis said:

It's a spammer.....already reported 

 

Notice the links hidden in the ___

 

Oh, that burns! Lol.

Thanks JP!!!