hsk 40 or 63 (Mikron)

[mold100]

Okay, First the mikron I am gettings not the HSM but its the VCP 600, still has the ti530, post issue solved - Thanks to all who helped out and Barefoot.

 

2nd I am not a Mikron fan but we can not say no to the deal, I ran a HSM 700 with the ti460, I could not stand this machine it had a 42,000 rpm HSK 40 (3/8 tool max for steel and 1/2 for graphite) leaked oil and y axis bearings locked up during machining, and 2 spindles in 2 years, it was a toy, a fast one but yet a toy..

 

Well here is my dilema - 42,000 Hsk 40 is $20,000 extra everyone seems to prefer this spindle. I personally would rather go with the 20,000 rpm spindle and add maybe a probe system. Any thoughts?????????20,000 rpms I still wont have an issue with tiny cutters, I used to run a Makino SNC64 with a 40 taper that I think had less than 20,000 rpms and was never an issue.

 

I need some input.

[chip]

Some of the guys here don't know how to use 10,000! I would love to use 42,000!

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

I'd take the HSK because it's a better HSM system.

 

There's drawbacks like you can't rough quite as assressively as you can with a CT/BT taper because there is not the deep taper rigidity, but with that kind of RPM you could easily make up for it in the faster feed rates you could go.

 

JM2C

[mold100]

James they are both HSK, the 40 is maybe 1 1/2 inch in diameter, its just really small. I believe the HSK 63 is bigger.

[mold100]

http://www.schaublin.ch/catalogues/PO012-020.pdf

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Yeah, 63 is the equivalent to CT/BT-40 and 100 is the equivalent to CT/BT-50. The 40 is I believe the equivalent to BT-30. Go with the 63 if possible.

 

JM2C

[iowajim62]

Corey,

 

quote:

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I personally would rather go with the 20,000 rpm spindle and add maybe a probe system.

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+1

If you don't need 42,000 then get the probe and all the benefits it offers namely operator errors being caught ie. misloaded parts,wrong offsets typed in etc.

[robk]

Corey,

I think you got the right idea...We just got Renishaw part probing package along with the laser tool probing package. Both for $25K. Money well spent.

[tsewyek]

Get the HSK 63A Holders, the 40's are way too small we have the 63's with a 15k spindle. Look closely into the holder availability with your local suppliers because we have problems getting them from time to time, as HSK becomes more popular in the States the supply is not meeting the demand at this time. We like the Techniks brand also the Lyndex/Nikken.

 

Good Luck

[Lucky]

Our VCP600 has the 42k spindle w/ HSK40 taper. It is ill suited for roughing and removing large volumes of material. It is perfect for our use in graphite machining and hard die milling. We use the Mikron for these tasks exclusively. We have other CAT40 machines for the heavier cuts.

 

If you need more versatility in a single machine you'd probably be happier with the 20k HSK63 machine. Just depends on your work and what you expect the machine to be able to do.

 

Our VCP600 has been rock solid reliable. I think your opinion of Mikron machines will change. The HSM700 was a machine ahead of its time with a specialized xxxx control and suffered the reliability problems associated with state-of-the-art technology.

 

Get the probe regardless of the spindle you select. It's only money. Select the spindle based on suitability to task. Don't compromise your spindle decision in order to get the probe system. It's only money, It's only money, It's only..........

[Greg Williams]

Corey,

 

Why not get the best of both, See if you can get a HSK - F63. You get the rigity of the 63 taper and the balance of the 40.

 

NOTE - Beware - We have a 35K Okuma, This is a nice machine but it does not have enough torque to tap an M5 hole in Aluminium. I think it has somthing like 4nm of torque so make sure you check this out if you are planning to do any tapping.

[mold100]

Thanks for the input guys, if any one else has something to add feel free, I like input.

 

Kieth, how far from Greensboro is Salisbury?

[HevyMetl]

We have the 63F with the 30K spindle in our SNC64. I am very pleased for the work we do, but my roughing cutters are ¼". We buy the SST Slimline through OSG no problem getting balance holders and insert at the drop of a Hat. IF money were not an issue I would probably go with the Haimer line. It is so clean and smooth, and balance impecably. We know have them balance all of our holders.

 

My personal opinon. If you are buying a HSM run it like an HSM and put you milling, drilling and tappping operations on a cheaper VMC. We are now milling things that I never though possible ie .4mm cutters x 2mm loc in 54-56 Rc S-7. By doing this my Ram EDM is setting idle more and more.

[mold100]

quote:

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My personal opinon. If you are buying a HSM run it like an HSM and put you milling, drilling and tappping operations on a cheaper VMC. We are now milling things that I never though possible ie .4mm cutters x 2mm loc in 54-56 Rc S-7. By doing this my Ram EDM is setting idle more and more.

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I have quite a bit of hsm experience, I do not intend to drill or tap on this machine, however for instance if I build a large die cast die out of H-13, I have seen these blocks grow as much as .05 to .06 and move like a beotch.So leaving that much stock off the Fadal I would like to Start off in the HSM with at least a 1/2 bull or

something similar, maybe a 3/4 inch sandvik coromill. The most rediculous thing I cut was a .012 rib over .185 deep in S-7 54-56, and OSG exocarb .2mm relieved (to finish) started with short cutters and that was at only 18,000 rpms in the 42,000 rpm machine.

[HevyMetl]

I was not questioning your expierence. I have seen enugh of your posts to know you have the know how. Just making a general observation that people tend to by a machine for a specific application then wonder why it won't do another. Or they get angry at the supplier when the spindle bearings go out because they were trying to run a 2" face mill in a 63F spindle.

 

Like I said earlier my parts are very small (and sometime smaller) and I have limited expierence with the bigger stuff.

 

On a side note. I do get into cavity blocks that are 6 x 8 x 2 " out of H-13 periodically and I have had great success with the stability of Ovar Supreme from Uddleholm.

[mold100]

quote:

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Or they get angry at the supplier when the spindle bearings go out because they were trying to run a 2" face mill in a 63F spindle.

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Doesnt that crack you up. People amaze me, they think because they have a cnc machine they can do anyting, right now I responded to a thread in the mmsonline forum about HSM, a guy wants to know why his HSM isnt cutting like it should, well its because you are useing an old dekel with a spindle speeder, the cotroller wont allow the processing of info to go through smoothly.Or people with a EZ path that will put a 6 inch R-8 face mill and wonder why they cant cut .200 depth at 30 ipm, and not destroy the head.

[mold100]

Oh, I didnt mean to imply the abilty questioning, sorry for that, I come across out of text sometimes. As far as the h-13 I have done alot with blocks that are like 8 X 12 X 4 and H-13 is consistent at growing .001 per square inch, though I have heard the Ovar is more stable, which would make up fopr the steel cost.

[HevyMetl]

I with 2 other guys build about 30 high precision 4 cavity molds per year. I have seen time and time again that buying more expensive materials payoff greatly in the over all cost of the molds. The cavities are more stable and have better wear properties. Most of out mold get cycled around 150K to 200K per year some even more. The steel and quality materials are inexpensive when you look at downtime. My boss freeked out the first time I took him in order for diamond coated endmills. After they ran about 40 times longer he asked why were you ordering these last year when you started.

 

I guess as they say cost is relative.

[mold100]

quote:

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After they ran about 40 times longer he asked why were you ordering these last year when you started.

 

I guess as they say cost is relative.

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Been there done that, exact scenerio.

[Lucky]

Corey,

 

Salisbury is about 50 minutes from Gboro down I-85. Swing on down, I'll buy the beer