Plunge Milling

[Guido]

Hi all,

My company just sent me to Kennametal University in Seattle.

It was Awsome.

I took the Metal Cutting Application Enginerring Course.

One of the tools that they showed us was called a plungemill.

It can be found in the Kennametal Milling Tooling Catolog under Die & Mold.

Im sure quite a few of you are using these tools.

I was wondering if any of you have ideas on how to program it with V8 mill level one or two.

I've already thought of using a G81 and stepping over but im sure there is an easier way to do it.

 

Thanks in advance for any ideas.

 

Joe

 

[chip]

Poetically speaking 'no'... J/K

 

If you have level 2 you should be able to cut a rough-surface. I think... you might have to run one surface at a time.

 

G81 that's good thinking... I wouldn't leave that machine to rough alone like that though.

 

 

Cold and rainy up there in Oregon yet?

[Guido]

Thanks Chip,

 

Nah it's been in the upper 70's for a few days.

...but its comming....Brrrrr

It's not the cold that gets you in Oregon.

It's the grey.

You can go WEEKS without seeing blue sky let alone the sun.

But the spring and summers make it all worth it

 

...and we can walk over to our kitchen sink, turn on the faucet, and take a chug of water better then any bottled stuff I've ever tasted.

 

Joe

[chip]

quote:

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...and we can walk over to our kitchen sink, turn on the faucet, and take a chug of water better then any bottled stuff I've ever tasted.

---

+1

 

Did you get your rough plunge toolpath? We have a couple rough plunge e.m.'s. None of us moldmakers use them. I don't really like the way they rough. I think it's hard on the spindles...

 

If I had a 50 taper Makino... Some of the guys here in the forum I'm sure get them making chips... I'm not discourging the op. I just don't use it at all.

 

[Hardmill]

quote:

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I think it's hard on the spindles...

---

Its not really harder on the spindle your using

the strongest part of the machine that way.

Side cutting puts much more pressure on your spindle.

Thats the whole idea behind the technology, utilizing

the strongest part of the machine.

 

 

PEACE

[chip]

quote:

---

Its not really harder on the spindle your using

the strongest part of the machine that way.

Side cutting puts much more pressure on your spindle.

Thats the whole idea behind the technology, utilizing

the strongest part of the machine.

---

+1000 I'll buy that... I have a 1.250 kennametal rough plunge... last time I ran that tool, I could'nt evac' the chips... sounded like Sh!*. We bought the tool though!

 

Like I said before:

quote:

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Some of the guys here in the forum I'm sure get them making chips... I'm not discourging the op. I just don't use it at all.

---

I just did'nt have time to get it to work...

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

+1000 to Hardmill. As a fromer Machine Tool BUilder Apps Engineer I wholeheartedly endorse this metal removal technique. Ther IS NOT a faster way to rough out a block than with a plunge mill. It's no harder on your machine than drilling. It's not something you can just throw in and expect it to be a miracle worker. There are specific strategies that work and some that DO NOT. My preference is first, to cut DRY[/b )if cutting steel, then go from the outside in of cutting a core and going from insite out if cutting a cavity. Stepovers will depend on several factors HP being the least important.

 

HTH

[?Mark]

quote:

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I've already thought of using a G81 and stepping over but im sure there is an easier way to do it

---

Not really if you want efficient tool path.

You can try rough surface but it really SUCKS (sorry Mastercam... )

I use it a lot to face parts, especially ones with bosses on them. It involves creating a lot of geometry (circles lines ) dividing them to get desired stepover, creating points and then it is just a simple G81 toolpath (no coolant).

It's a pain but plunging kicks a$$

Time saving on a particular part in 17-4 ph was 90+%. I like using plungers where applicable.

About 4 years back I had to mill a slot 8" deep by 1.75" wide and 25" long in 4340(the whole thing weighted about 500 pounds). Try doing this with a rougher... That's when we started using plungers.

I use it on a cat 50 mori vmc, but it will do great on 40 taper also. Somebody said it is much easier on the machine than aggresive roughing and I agree.

Just wish MC would have a little better options in utilizing this great tool...

 

Kind regards, Mark

[chopsley]

Guido,

I do believe I know you. Yeah the Kennametal U. really rocked. Lots of really smart old boys with white hair that have just about seen it all. As for the plunge milling, G81 would probably work but I'm not thrilled about dragging the tool back up on the retract. The parts I have in mind are not in cavities such as a mold or the like. So chip evacuation should not be a problem. The material is a VERY high strength structural steel. about 42 Rc. The presentation agreed exactly with what James and Hardmill have posted. Primary cutting force right up into the spindle bearings. They also explained to us that this is a roughing process only. You will have to clean up the scallops (sp?) with another tool but the material removal is awesome.

Oh, Guido. I'm still wondering how you got the room with the jacuzzi and wet bar. Turbo smooze?

[Hardmill]

Hey Guido and chopsley,

How long was the course and do you know the cost??

 

What other kind of applications did they show

you guys??

Just being nosey

 

 

PEACE

[?Mark]

quote:

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I'm not thrilled about dragging the tool back up on the retract.

---

Agreed, this could be a problem especially on deep plunges (3 x dia +) but there are now many different plungers that can eliminate this.

Seco Carboloy does rub on retract because it has a negative angle at a bottom but it is a real hammer(better have chip conv. running, otherwise you gonna be swimming in chips). If rubbing on retract is a problem try using iscar (6 inserts). It has a positive angle at the bottom which makes cutter bite into a wall on plunge so there is no rubbing on retract...

Kind regards, Mark

[chip]

quote:

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What other kind of applications did they show

you guys??

---

+1 I'm determined to get this to work...

 

I will look into the seco and a couple other cutters. I know two other mold makers who use this toolpath (Rough-Plunge) all the time. O.D. roughing is good for clearance, a lot of times we run cavities or pockets...

 

 

[Steel Surgeon]

I uploaded a file to the ftp in the mc9 folder called "plunged ruled". If you don't have material on both sides of the cutter this works well. We have used this for deep walls that need to be vertical.

[Guido]

Here is a link to the Kennametal Class for those interested.

I think it was around $500. and worth every penny.

 

 

Guido

web page

[Guido]

Here is a link to the Kennametal Class for those interested.

I think it was around $500. and worth every penny.

 

 

Guido

web page

[chopsley]

Yeah, Guido is right. $500 sounds about right.

The course was all day Tuesday and Wed., and until noon on Thursday. They covered mechnics of metal cutting, chip groove geometry, edge preps (T-lands & hones), single point threading, hole making, rotary tool holder selection, thread milling, tapping and lots of other stuff. They gave us a very good presentation on failure analysis of cutting tools and inserts. I got a lot from the discussion of "In cut optimiaztion".

Tool life vs: max production etc.

I have to give them credit for not making it a huge Kennametal ad. I came back with lots of knowledge that I intend to apply at work. I would strongly recommend this class to anyone involved in metal removal.

[Steel Surgeon]

Any comment on the file I sent to the ftp?

[Thad]

Guido,

 

Are you looking to plunge cut a pocket or plunge along a contour? If contouring, I think Steel Surgeon (I like that ) has a nice path.

 

Thad

[Guido]

Steel Surgeon.......thanks.

That is a great file.

I love the way you step away so as not to rub the insert on the wall.

 

Guido

[Steel Surgeon]

Glad to help.

[htm01]

we just bought a sandvik 3"dia one for roughing 316 ss and it rocks.i pick locs like drilling but then edit to G1 then.05 retract move a little away and repeat.