Tooling for mid-range machines (Fadal)

[Tom Szelag]

Been reading through old threads with regard to killer tools. Sounds like those Hanita Varimills are badass and put everything else to shame. And all those feed mills and what not I'm sure are a sight to see.

 

I'm only running a Fadal 3016 though. 95% of what we run is alloy aluminum (6061, 7075, 2024) and Ultem 1000, with the remainder of the work being some oddball 304, 316, and 416 SS. I also do side work on a Formula SAE car, bout half and half alloy aluminum and 4130 steel.

 

So I'd like to look into some good tooling (OSG blizzard EMs?) that will get the job done well on our machine, but at the same time I don't think its necessary to go all-out and buy really expensive tools designed for blowing through hardened steel on a 50 taper.

 

Anyone in the same boat got any suggestions?

[chris m]

We run vanilla SGS carbide endmills on a lot of our easier stuff and they're pretty reasonable. OSG has some pretty inexpensive endmills as well in their 'general purpose' lines

 

C

[Psychomill]

If you're looking for mid range pricing, maybe try Niagara or Weldon. Both you can get from Shop Tools or Tech-Tool. I wouldn't use them but both do seem to work well in lower rpm/low HP apps. Weldon also has a Ski-Carb like tool for aluminum(I forget the name it. SGS bought into the design from Weldon which turned into their Ski-Carb). Garr tool and Micro 100 also has some good pricing.

 

Maybe try out the endmills from Brian Cook as well. I know he came out with his own line of endmills. I was supposed to test them for him but I left Colorado. His shop is BC Tool, in Colorado Springs (719)-638-0303.

 

HTH

[?Mark]

quote:

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pretty inexpensive endmills

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Hanita's varimills are not that expensive and we use a lot of them here. 3/8 is mid $20 and will run circles around most other...

Another think to consider is their flute geo.

If your setup is not very rigid it will help with vibration.

Tech-tool is exclusive here so contact Ty @ 720-982-4856

 

Second choice for me is Niagara Stabilizer (Shoop-Tools)

 

Mark

[Jim at Gentex]

All good answers as usual.

 

Tom,

Another possibility that just dawned on me is that you could investigate the possibility of securing some 'freebies' from some manufacturers or vendors since you are affiliated with a university and are not in a strictly for-profit business. I know some of our local manufacturers and tool vendors often donate to our vo-tech programs around here, so it's not unheard of. I think the vendors get a tax break or something for donating to educational institutions, so everybody wins. As an engineering student, you could easily conduct some controlled tests using different tools and materials, all in the name of education, of course, and possibly have some vendors pick up the tab. You'd be surprised at what may be out there for free if you scrounge around!

[Tom Szelag]

Hmm. Definately time to start calling up Shop Tools et all. No way I'm going to spend $80 on a .375 and $100 on a .500 ski-carb from MSC.

 

And Jim that's a damn good idea!

[Charlie Pierson]

I've had really good luck w/ Niagra 3flt Elite series in Aluminum, They outperformed and outlasted DataFlute and Garr equivalents.

 

cp

[?Mark]

quote:

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No way I'm going to spend $80 on a .375 and $100 on a .500

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Tom those are list prices, nobody pays that

Bet Ty could get you couple to try

 

Mark

[TonyNanni@BNB]

WE CUT 403SST BY THE TON. GARR IS OUR GENERAL CUTTER OF CHOICE WITH TicN COATING. THEY HAVE GREAT STOCK WITH CORNNER RADIUS AVALIBLE AND PAY 80% OF LIST PRICE. WERE IN CT AND FOUND A CUTTER GRINDER LOCAL THAT MAKES A CUTTER THAT IS RADIAL RELEIVED THAT KICKs BUTT, NOT THE STANDARD PRIMARY/SECONDARY RELEIF. WE RUN 2200-2400 RPM AT 20-30IPM. THE FINISH ON THE PART IS LIKE GLASS AND THE TAPPER ON A 1.5LOC IS <= .0002. THE BEST PART IS RUNNING 20HRS A DAY AND CHANGE THE TOOL ONCE A WEEK. IF YOU WANT MORE INFO CONTACT PRIMARY CUTTER GRINDER @ 1.860.828.9573 OR WWW.SUPERMILL.NET

 

GOOD LUCK

TONY

[TonyNanni@BNB]

OOPS

FORGOT TO TELL YOU THAT WAS FOR A 3/4DIA CUTTER.

SORRY

[Tim Johnson]

For your alum/ULTEM check out Data Flute. About once every three months we have sales people trying to beat them and haven't yet. I love watching them wince when their tools are rattling the doors off after watching the Data Flutes humming though the Alum. Ostrem is next in line

For your 4130 Hanita's Varimill is very good also.

[GVM]

Hard to beat Garr Tool for price. And they do a damn nice job. www.garrtool.com

[BernieT]

Lots of good deals on Ebay, too. Many are odd sizes but that shouldn't matter.

 

Do some checking before bidding, there is some real cheesy quality with some sellers. Try to buy only name brand cutters.

 

I have bought some new Garr cutters and a Hanita Varimill for about 1/2 price.

 

[medaq]

With aluminum and steel, I have very good luck with longevity and performance and price with basset tools. For heavy material cutting I try and get some data flutes ordered. Data flutes always amaze me with how much life I get out of them when even cutting inconel.

 

Jim

[Bruce Caulley]

Garr are pretty hard to beat on price and performance. Their range is pretty extensive also.

 

Bruce

[Tom Szelag]

Thanks for the replies. Looks like I'll be contacting some local places this week.

 

At the moment the type of feed/speed I've been running in aluminum, as was taught to me, is on the order of 4000RPM, 22IPM, .180 AxDOC, .100 RadDOC for a .375 45deg helix 2 flute carbide, TiN coated EM.

 

I'm sure even on a Fadal I can be running a much higher MRR. Unfortunately our spindle only goes up to 7500rpm.

[Guest]

Lets see .375 dia endmill.

 

DOC .190 approx 50% of Dia

Stepover .205 approx 55% of Dia

CPT .005

 

CPT .005 x 2 Flutes x 7500 RPM = 75IPM

 

 

Carbide Data-Flute or Ski-Carb type

 

 

I lean towards the 3 Flute Destiny Vipers at nearly 200 IPM on a 12000 RPM spindle. I'd go faster but my machine gets hurky jerky at those feeds. I may have to explore the HSM option soon.

Try it

 

[Chris Rizzo]

quote:

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3 Flute Destiny Vipers at nearly 200 IPM on a 12000

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That's what I usually run the 1/2" vipers at. I've run it up to 400 ipm at 12000, and she still cuts well. I know I'm well out of the machines torque curve at that rpm, though.

 

I usually run anything 1" and under at max machine rpm in aluminum, with carbide or insert mills. The execption being to eliminate harmonics/chatter with long tools and/or goofy setups and fixturing.

 

Bang-for-buck, MA Ford 3 flute cutters (138 series) are very good too. Cheaper than Data-flutes and Destiny finishers, and a near infinite variety of sizes.

[chris m]

quote:

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Definately time to start calling up Shop Tools et all. No way I'm going to spend $80 on a .375 and $100 on a .500 ski-carb from MSC

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Tom, MSC has a HUGE margin on tools like that. Even if you don't buy much I'd bet they'll knock at least 15% off the book price just because you call them [call the local distribution center listed in your book for discounts, they won't do it on the national number] and even more if you are a regular customer.

 

Just as a reference, a 1/2" TiN 4fl stub SGS endmill costs me about $25 from my local supplier. Relationship purchasing from local industrial tool suppliers are the way to go, in my opinion.

 

C

[ChuckM]

I get the 1/2" dia. 1-1/4" LOC SGS Ski-carb from Carbide Depot for ~$68. We're using them right now on a 6061 job... 10k, .007 IPT and they are doing real well.

 

I'll have to give the Destiny 3-fluters a whirl on our next run.

 

One thing I will say though, the Ski-carb is a nice end mill but for the money you should check out Micro 100's "aluminum" grinds. They are ground very similar and from what I've seen, they perform just as well as the Ski's.

 

If you run into jobs where you'd like to use a long l/d ratio mill but don't want to pay carbide prices, try the MiniCut 3-fluters. Nice cutters for the money.

 

-Chuck

[SLJ]

We run a lot of IMCO(not Enco) Streaker 3 fluters on alum. Have pretty good luck even on the Fadals(4020 and 3016).

+1 on the mini-cut hi-speed tools.

[jeff]

For cutting aluminum,I have tried both OSG Blizzard,and Hanita 3 flute uncoated with a slight corner rad.

Our machine only has a 6,000 spindle,but we run those endmills (5/8 and 3/4 dia) at about 150-200 IPM d.o.c. is about 1/2-5/8 deep full slotting.

We would feed it faster if our spindle could go faster.

7075 we run dry,and 6061 flood coolant.

For the $,get the Hanita they are cheaper and last just as long.

The varimills in steel are great too.

And yes Garr has tons of diff sizes in stock and great price too!