Makino Rips MC

[Fred @ Slate Industries]

Well two of my bosses just got back from the Makino open house in Detroit.

They said they were told by Makino that

Mastercam won't work well with there Highspeed machines because there tool motions break cutters.

We have to use Cam-Tool out of Canada For $25,000.

 

Whatever...

[gcode]

WTF's a Cam-Tool??

[Guest]

quote:

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WTF's a Cam-Tool??

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RandleXXX

 

He seems like quite a tool

 

[Fred @ Slate Industries]

Cam tool V-3 software

[Scott Sizemore]

That stuff blows!!!!!!! Try and drill a hole with it. You need to show your boss Cimco-Hsm. Much better than cam-tool.

[gcode]

quote:

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You need to show your boss Cimco-Hsm

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I was looking at that (Cimco-HSM) but a little birdie suggested I wait and see what X MR1 has to offer

[g huns]

quote:

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Mastercam won't work well with there Highspeed machines

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They didn't say it won't work, just not so good. In V9 if you bought the Cimco HSM add on you would be close to cam-tool for HSM. For HSM it's pretty nifty. Not the total package the MC is. They got a nice little niche and sucked up hard to Makino, Yasda, etc. to get it pushed on new machine buyers. If you can afford to maintain a seperate package just for the Makino, then it would be the one I picked. For now I would stick with MC. I hear rumors that the upcoming MR will contain at least some of the goodies previously available only in the Cimco HSM add on.

[g huns]

slow on the draw again

[Carl Hessig]

They told us the same thing a couple of months ago. We have a 5 yr. old makino snc64 and have been using mastercam sense V7 and we cut hard steel and graphite in it and don't have a problem. Five yrs. ago they were singing Unigraphics only. We don't have Cimco-Hsm but have seen a demo on it, nice product. I also hear mr1 will have some new high speed toolpaths in it. When machine tool builders tell you what software they think is best ask if they had to pay for it. Makino and Cam-tool are both in Japan! Makino has great support but they are only 2 hours away. If you look on Cam-tool website you will not find the support that Mastercam has. Anyway Mastercam and Makino are a good matchup. Thats coming from a shop that runs one 80+ hrs. a week.

 

Carl

[tooljockey]

YEAH! What Carl said!

 

(i'm 5 feet to the right of Carl's desk)

[Fred @ Slate Industries]

WORD!

Thanks everyone

I'll Wait for MR1 and then if needed Demo Cimco

HSM.

[chip]

quote:

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They got a nice little niche and sucked up hard to Makino

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I'll bet it was from a salesmen (not that they are bad, we all need salesman) whom doesn't know the first difference between cam packages. yet alone what the difference in code. He wouldn't know if he was reading arcs, lines. I'll bet he makes twice as much as all of us too.

[Psychomill]

Like everyone else says..... SCREW EM!!

 

We have a bunch of A55s (including an A55e... 3300 ipm) and program with MC. No problems. I've programmed SNC, A77, A88, the old FNC... all with MC.

 

It's possible that HSM (whether its Cimco, MC or other) may be violent for the machine. But that has little to do with the software and more to do with the programmer using and setting the parameters of the cut... As well as how well the geometry is manipulated or otherwise in certain areas of cuts.

 

[HevyMetl]

I run it on a daily basis and the only thing I have a had a problem with was trachodial cutting. I don't know if it was the MC or me, but it trachodialed in and then took a massive cut out. I had trachodial set for full material only, maybe this was my problem. I don't know. Got scared and said maybe later when I got time. Time never seems to come though.

 

I worked with a couple of Makino app engineers on MC and they couldn't tell me why it wouldn't work as well, only just use camtool and you won't have any problems. They have changed the package that they push 3 times in the last 7 years. Like was said above, first was UG, then POWERMILL, and now CamTool. I have yet to cut a cavity that I didn't have some 2d work, and per camtools rep, "We can't handle anyhting other than surfacing." One of the so called "power" packages was used to program a piece, and it ran at the same speed as the MC programed piece. The "excuse" I was given was the surface wasn't good to begin with. I told them to recreate it in their package and cut it over, I am still waiting for this improved toolpath. (2years) I am going to have to exhale before long.

 

Come on MC get us some of the HSM options!!!! I can't push CIMCO here on top of MC and PRO/Man. They are already trying to push MC out because of as they see it double capacity.

[tooljockey]

YEAH! What John said!

 

[Greg Williams]

What a load of xxxxe, My old company had 3 makinos with all the bells and whistles, They make parts to a supertight tolerance using MC no problems

[Roger Peterson]

The reason they push it is because it makes their machines "sound" good. If you haven't, check into cimco's adaptive clearing. You can download some sample mc9 files right from their site and backplot, verify, and post if you wish to:

 

cimco hsm

 

By making it "sound" good I mean that cam-tool has a somewhat similar toolpath to the adaptive clearing. The adaptive clearing is a peel mill toolpath, it will never engage more material than your max engagement percentage. It is an awsome toolpath that sounds sweet while cutting. You can actually use those side cutting feedrates your tool rep tells you they can cut at. Now, CAMTool does have a couple of nice toolpaths. But, it is the slowest calculating, most cumbersome software I have ever seen, period. And, I don't beleive it holds a candle to mastercam with the hsm product. The list of things that it does not do well, or not at all is way too long to list. But it does have a nice roughing toolpath that is similar to the adaptive clearing. Removing hardened steel is where the roughing tools like the Adaptive clearing in Mastercam and the roughing tool in camtool are neccesary.

 

 

JM2C

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

What a load of crap. Makino changes their mind abot stuff all the time. They make a top notch machine, and their AE's are very knowledgable but... if this is the quote...

...Mastercam won't work well with there Highspeed machines because there tool motions break cutters...[/b]then athey are full of $#!+ and you should call them out publicly in front of other customers, demand they prove it, in front of people. I know I want to see it. I programmed some great mold and die demos when I was an AE for Mori using Mastercam and I never broke any cutters unless I did something wrong. Perhaps a little personal responsibility and knowledge of the tool (Mastercam in this case) is in order.

 

Makino has sunk to a new low IMHO. They used to lie to customers and tell them that they had a "Special Relationship with Fanuc" and that they had stuff nobody else did. They had freakin' MACROs that changed Acc/Dec Parameters acording to what you wanted to do. Yeah, that's special allright.

 

Well when you charge a premium for your machine, you gotta do something to differentiate yourself from the competition. I guess that means outright lying.

[Müřlıń®]

What a load of BS.....The reason they said that is beause they are non thinking robots who couldn't machine thier way out of a paper bag.....they can only go back and forth with percentages...

 

 

These are the same guys who said that you would be able to take their tool and machine a 3/D,high detail, 32" x 32" high-nickel alloy die with a 1/8" ball....what a bunch of morons....

[HevyMetl]

I don't want to continue bashing Makino. I am doing things with their machines that are fanatastic, and I might add our other vendor couldn't come close to. I just wish they would sell their machines on the fenominal features they have, and not make excuses with cam packages. You can take many packages and develope strong machines stratagies with them and make part safely and profitably. I pushed that issue in the Tech transfer class, and all of a sudden cam packages were no longer discussed for the rest of the 3 days. My insturctor made it a point to say the worst machinist on the best machine will still find a way to make bad parts. They just hoped to cut his avenues of approach with their training.

[JazzBass]

Well hell, MC doesn't work with Haas either. I keep breaking tools too!

 

Kickbacks?

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

I don't think anyone is bashing the machine. I know I'm not. They make some of the best machines on the planet and you'd be an idiot to think otherwise. The real problem here is the AE's blanket statements about CAM systems other than their suggected CAM System of the year. Next year or in a couple years it will be something else and they'll be bashing CAM Tool. It's just arrogant AE's spouting off about things which they have no or very little idea about.

 

When they were pushing UG, it was because UG could output NURBS code so that you could run Makino's Fanuc Control in NURBS Mode which is the fastest way to process G-Code.

[Psychomill]

Kudos to James....