MORI SEIKI NH4000 DCG

[Slixmix]

The new shop I'm at has a brand new one these on the floor and 2 more on the way. I'm responsible for setting them up. They have the lastest Fanuc controls that run under Windows like Mazaks do. Have training Friday for the control. First time getting my hand's on a Mori. I've always heard good things about them. Any thought's, suggestions, horror stories?

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Ask the Apps guy how to turn off the CRAPPS interface so you can use straight FANUC. If they tell you they can't do it, wave the flag and demand it. Tell them the rest of the order hangs in the balance

 

Other than that, you should be happy with it. Mori makes nice machines.

[Hardmill]

Very nice machine, James seen the ones (8) we had where I used to work.

 

Just make sure you have all the HPCC options out the door

or your boss will pay dearly to get them later.

 

 

PEACE

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Yeah, you want AI-NANO bare minimum - AI-NANO 2 is preferable. G8 sux for surfacing.

 

Make sure the AE sets it up for you to run off the memory card via M198 for you while he is there too.

[KCollins]

We only buy mori's for our mills and lathes. We've got some older cincinnatis and mazaks also, but mori is hands down the machine of choice for us.

 

Consider me jealous

[88Matt]

quote:

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Ask the Apps guy how to turn off the CRAPPS interface so you can use straight FANUC. If they tell you they can't do it, wave the flag and demand it. Tell them the rest of the order hangs in the balance

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Sage advice. This is how we run our Mori horizontal. Much easier and fewer crashes. The purchasing engineer didnt require it with our Mori millturn and the guys are frustrated and double scared of it.

[Jerosu]

88Matt. What do you mean by fewer crashes? We have MAPPS (CRAPPS) on 4 machines and it has never caused a "crash" of any kind. Cumbersome at times, maybe. Crashes no way.

[Jerosu]

Sorry I didn't actually answer your question above.

 

The NH4000 is nice machine for sure. Had them since 2004. I can't really think of anything specific you need to look out for. Keep the washdowns aimed in the right places in the machine to keep the chips washed down... especially around the shutter door to the toolchanger. We added some "y" fittings to get a few more streams.

[88Matt]

quote:

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What do you mean by fewer crashes?

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Not the control by itself. It's our other machines are Fanuc interfaces or OA and the programmers/operators will move from one machine to another. So we tried to stay with a similar interface.

Of course this will change when our Hermles come in.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Yeah, you definitely want to have adequate washdown on ALL machines. Be careful where you aim them, we used to call them Mori Leaky

[Ed@Elite]

Not to change the subject, but how do you guys think Mori's compare to Makinos (for vertical machining centers)? Are they of the same quality? Have any of you guys used both?

 

Thanks

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Gonna depend on what you want to do with it.

[Rick Henrickson The Boeing Co.]

Ed I think all the name brands are good quality, Mori, Okuma, Mazak, Mattsura, Nigatta, DMG, but I still think Makino, is a step above maybe not in all aspects but they are a great machine tool

[Ed@Elite]

Thanks Rick. That what I thought, but my only experience is with Fadal's and Makino's. I heard Mori's were great machines too, but I also heard not many people in the Mold/Die industry have them.

My Uncle bought a Mori Seiki CNC Lathe and he told Mori to take it back and shove it after 6 months of them not being able to get the job he bought it for running. He ended up losing about $500K worth of work because of it. He took the job to them before he even bought the machine and they told him "NO PROBLEM".

[KCollins]

what kind of job was it? We have a mori sl-25 that will hold ±0.0002" all day long on hard turning operations

[Rick Henrickson The Boeing Co.]

just a tip for future purchase, make them do a run off to your specs, we use to have to do it all the time to prove process capability. Not all customers requested that but we did many on the intergrex for optics folks!

[Ed@Elite]

Im a mold guy, so turning isnt my thing AT ALL, but he had a billet of Aluminum that had a weight of 100lbs, and he had to removing a lot of material from it, and everytime he roughed, the bit would move or something like that. He had Applications Engineers from Mori there everyday trying to figure out what was going on, and they couldn't.

[mkd]

We just purchased a nh4000 to the exclusion of other brands, but I did not consider a Makino..oops

 

Anyway, two issues I found right on start-up are:

 

1. Nobody at our supplier knows how to turn off the chip conveyor / coolant flush. This pumps lots of coolant into the chip barrel and lots of chips onto the floor when changing barrels. The other problem is the “1000 GPM” coolant pumps that come on with the chip conveyor cause the coolant to get very warm and foam all over the floor! After trying a couple of defoamers (all Valinite semi-synthetic) I finally found one that worked. I messed with the “keep relay” settings with the applications Dept with no luck. This should not be a 4 week, 20 phone call problem!!!! Anyone out there with a very recent purchase with a solution?

 

2. The max feed rate is 196ipm. If you use G8, it will have a higher top speed at the expense of sluggish acceleration. On my workpiece, adding a G8 to a program at 300ipm added 4 min to a 45 min cycle!! WTF comes to mind….

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Slow down the chip conveyor's speed. This will keep coolant loss via chips to a minimum.

 

G8 sux. G5.1Q1 and G5 P10000 RULE!!! 50% cycle time reduction in certain tests I've done.

[mkd]

Good suggestions, as usual “OG”! Thanks.

 

I blew it on the purchase for not demanding all the HPCC bells and whistles up front. Please confirm: I need the additional computer processor installed in order too use the G5.1, right???

How much does the upgrade cost; $5k, $10k ??

 

I was looking at a Mazak that was also in stock for about $30k more, with way more RPM, way more HP, more travel and more accessories. It was also listed with a bit more “G’s” of acceleration. If it wasn’t for those stupid positive length offsets…

Does any one know if a stock Mazak will spank a stock Mori?

Thanks guys

[Jerosu]

Also, ask your dealer about editing the accel/decel on the fly. We have a macro that is called with a 'G150 Q1', G150 Q2, etc. That basically adjusts some of the accel/decel parameters in the machine. It works with G08 too. It's not a subsitute for the higher level look ahead, but it may help you out.

[somename75]

In my experience the Mori's will cut 20 or so % better in heavy cuts, but will be nothing but a big pile of small pain in the A$$ problems like the ones you mentioned. The Mazak horizontal at my last job was a very good machine, and 25% less then the Mori equivelant. just my .02

[mkd]

Jerosu, thanks for the info. I sent my applications guy that request!

 

This mapps msx701 III on our NH4000 seems much improved over the crappsII I used on a "SH5000". It has more that ample memory onboard and you can actually scroll through the nc code without the control bogging down. It also has useful vital information a displayed on one page like spindle/axis load, current tool, next tool, rpm and feed (programmed and actual).

[88Matt]

quote:

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If it wasn’t for those stupid positive length offsets…

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mkd, could u expand on this please?

 

Thanks

[mkd]

Matt88,

On the few Mazak PC fusion controls I’ve used the length offsets are positive. The length offset determines the distance from machine home to the “jack in the box” tool setter as a positive number. During setup there is an easy way to set the distance from the tool setter to Z0 on the work piece, this number goes into the fixture offset. If the program calls a TLO that is erroneously set to zero or even worse, nearly zero, there is nothing to maintain the proper gap between Z0 and the jack in the box. In this situation the spindle then crashes into the tombstone!! If this same scenario happens with a negative TLO machine, the spindle will only move the amount in the program or mare likely overtravel at the R-plane block in the program (like a sane machine).

Now I’m not a Mazak expert, talking with their Applications Dept, there is no way to change it to negative (mori can be set both ways). One guy I talked to claimed there is a parameter to prevent running a zero offset, but in my experience in a shop full of Mazak’s and even less skilled people, this is a recipe for disaster which I witnessed. Some Mazak expert will probably chime in and tell me I don’t know what I’m doing and there is an easy way to avoid this, but IMHO this is no way to setup a machine.

 

I love the look on management’s face when you tell them we need to send the spindle out for sharpening!