how do I become a programmer?

[produca2]

Hello, I have been working with Mastercam over the last year or so, (V9/X2). My question is this, I work everyday with Mastercam mill level 1, (I am limited as to my toolpaths and I cant use Solids) I also take classes on the weekends at the N.T.M.A. for advanced Mastercam training. So I am learning at an accelerated rate. My current job consists of being the sole in house machinist, both cnc and conventional. I run 2 HAAS VMC's a bridgeport mill and a Cadillac lathe. Its a good job, and its also my first "official" Machinist position. I am looking to obtain a position as a Mastercam Programmer, and would like to know if anyone has any tips on how to go about getting an entry level programmer position, or is there such a thing? I would like to know how some of you in here broke into programming, and can any of you point me in a direction that I might need to be heading. I have applied to a couple of companies only to get a response like "we are looking for somebody who will be more of a turn key solution". I am not sure what that entails. Any tips or direction is much appreciated Thanks

[malibu]

if you are using mastercam you are a programmer already.

just ask your boss for a raise

[produca2]

Thanks......for that....

[crazy^millman]

Turn key means they give you a job you tell them how to make it from scratch. You can do all the programming, planning, fixture designing, fixture programs, operation programs, make set-up sheets for the fixture and operation programs, make operation check sheets for the parts programmed. Be able to answer any question about the manufacturing of the part you programed all the way through all of the manufacturing process you were involved in.

 

Some things you should be able to do. Set-up and operate many different types of machines with different types of controls. This also mean different types of machines like CNC lathes, CNC mills. Know some of the other machine shop practices so you also become so what of an general knowledge and answer man as well.

 

Me I have set-up, operated, and programmed over a 140 different machines. Ranging from Swiss Screw Machines to 7 axis Integrexs in CNC lathes. I have done the same for mills ranging in size from Fadal 16" x 30" 3 axis to SNK 240' x 30' 5 axis Gantry 2 bridge 6 spindle 5 axis and Horizontals from 400 mm to 1000mm also in Cells with 40 pallets. I have done the same on about 5 different wire EDM's. I also do programming for 5 axis CMM's. I have also worked on Bridgeport's, Vertical Lathes 48" to 144" Swing, Horizontal Lathes up to 42" swing x 20' length, Boring mills with 5" dia spindles with 5' range on the quill. I also know how to use a surface grinder or just about anything else in a shop. Oh yeah I was a certified welder in all 3 disciplines about 15 years ago. With that said I still learn something everyday and best piece of advice I can give you is go out and see how others are doing it so you will not learn just one way to do something. Experience is the best teacher in this profession. Books and words will only get you so far. Talking the talk is one thing, but when you can go into a shop and walk the walk then you are turn key.

 

You are a programmer now, just limited with experience is all. I really like your enthusiasm and if you were closer to our shop I would tell you to come up here and talk to me about a job since I am still looking for an entry level programmer wanting to learn and grow in this profession.

[produca2]

Thanks Ron thats exactly the kind of advice I was looking for! And as for the job, I will email you!

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

---

...we are looking for somebody who will be more of a turn key solution...

---

That means essentially they want a seasoned programmer, we don;t want to have to break you in. We need a person that's not going to be a project.

 

As for what I did to prepare myself, I pretty much did as you are doing. Worked full time, went to school a few nughts a week, took work home with me to practice on - HARD stuff, not the asy stuff they were spoon feeding me at my job. Eventually the right opportunity presented itself to move into programming full-time and I was ready because I put in the sweat equity on my own time.

 

I'd say it's paid off handsomely from me.

 

As for what you ned to do to move up, basically since you asked the question about the "turn-key solution" I'd say you're probably not quite ready. Not seeing any of your work, I'd guess you're a few years away yet since you basically have a little more than a year under your belt. In all honesty, companies like to see 5 years minimum before they're ready to hire you as a fulltime programmer. I know for me, I was about 5 1/2 years into it, with 3 years of it or so going to night school taking programming and machining classes. Not saying you would not be ready sooner, just saying what companies generally look for.

 

HTH

[3R!< W3NG3R]

Experience!!!!

 

Once you have it, no one can take it away. If you are working somewhere and not learning a thing, and you are young, then it may be time to look around. Only a good machinist can be a good programer (IMO). So I would say keep at it and learn as much as you can.

 

I used to take courses at night, study machine manuals, write my own macros ect... just for fun on my own time.

[produca2]

Nice thanks!Keep em coming!

 

[ 03-13-2008, 07:05 PM: Message edited by: produca2 ]

[Guest]

There is no replacement for experience.

 

I have held over 20 jobs in over 20 yrs, done everything from sweeping the floors and cleaning the toilets.

 

Before you can get jobs like you are interviewing for, you will need a good deal more than you current;y have.

 

Do not be afraid to move around so that you learn different things and are exposed to many different methods. This is where you will begin to learn what works and what does not. This will allow you to begin to carve out your own style based on your experiences.

 

After you have a few years of experience and you begin interviewing for higher level jobs, DO NOT let people use your moving around too different jobs as a negative.

 

Explain that the experience you have gained would never have been possible if you had not done so, you have been exposed to much and gained much in knowledge and ability because of it. It will be up to you, with confidence and experience to help them understand you did this because you ARE driven.

 

Experience, confidence and ability can take you far in this trade and earn you a decent living.

 

Good Luck in your learning

[Justin Beebe at Folsom Tool]

I first learned mastercam version 6. I took a job at a shop working night shift as a CNC setup machinist. One of the conditions I arranged before taking the job was that I would be able to come in early everyday to learn mastercam. I would come into work an hour early "off the clock" and then the programmers would answer any questions I had. Thats how I learned 2D programming. A few years later I took a job at a mold shop making less than I was worth. I arranged with the owner to teach me how to program 3D toolpaths. I learned alot but eventually had to go take another job that paid more money. Then I moved 3000 miles across the country and when I got here I sent out letters saying I new mastercam and needed a job. As luck would have it I was hired by a shop that does mainly multi-axis work and they said they would train me. So my advice is get creative with ways to get your foot in the door and be willing to do whatever it takes to accomplish your goals. Above all be honest about your experience level there are many places that will train you. I have seen many people hired and fired because they were not what they claimed to be. You sound very motivated. I wish you the best of luck. One more thing I may add is that this forum really helped me out with my confidence level when I took my last job. I knew if I got stuck with a mastercam issue or machining issue there were people here who could help me. This forum has cobntributed to me having a better quailty of life because it has made me better at my profession.

[produca2]

Awesome! I apreciate all the feedback you guys are giving me. I have considered most of the things you guys have sounded off on and I am working on them like mad! I love this profession, I am so glad it found me and I only wish I would have gotten in to it at an earlier age! Your comments are motivating so please keep em coming!

[Surface]

Experience means so much. I started with Mastercam 5 and taught myself in a job shop atmosphere. I never changed jobs much, I didn't need to be challenged further. I started my own job-shop 8 years ago.

The quantities my shop produces range from prototype through small production. Some 2D stuff, some complex 3D stuff. Materials range from plastic to exotic metals. Size range from hundreds of pounds to less than a gram.

I'm always amazed how much knowlege it takes to be successful in this trade.

[Colin Gilchrist]

I started out almost exactly where you are 12 years ago. I was a production machinist for just over a year right out of college. I learned mostly manual machining and a little taste of CNC programming at college (mostly writing g code programs by hand and running them on an old fanuc 0 machine.

 

I decided I didn't really dig being a production machinist and started to look around. While in the last few months still running large Okuma verticle mills, I started to learn how to program 2D conversational toolpaths on a ProtoTrak (retro fitted bridgeport). I was basically reading the manual and teaching myself. The prototrak control is also very user friendly.

 

The owner of our company would sometimes get short run production contracts for new jobs. If we didn't have capacity during the week (we ran 1&2 shift M-F only), sometimes he would post jobs up on a cork board, and some of the experienced guys in the shop would do the jobs on contract. The owner would set a price per part, and provide materials for the fixtures, and the machinists would bid on the contract jobs.

 

I thought to myself that I could do one of those jobs on contract. I approached the owner and asked him if I could contract one of the jobs. He was reluctant, but I convinced him I was capable, and he gave me a shot at doing it.

 

I came in 4 weekends in a row and put a ton of hours into the project. I stayed all night the last Sunday I was working on the job and I was finishing up the deburring when 1st shift came in.

 

I will never forget the feeling of having the best machinist in the shop come up to me and congratulate me on finishing the job, on time.

 

I ended up making around $6.00 an hour on that job when all was said and done, but the knowledge and respect I gained from doing it and succeeding at it, was priceless. I never got treated like a punk 19 year old kid again.

 

Keep at it, keep learning, and look around for the right opportunity. Find a job with growth potential. Find a place that has other programmers that you can learn from. You might not make as much money at first, but that will come quickly once you have 1-5 years under your belt.

 

The last piece of advice I have is READ THE HELP FILE. Use the "field definitions" tab to figure out what each check box, data entry field, drop down menu, and radio button do. I'm mostly self taught in Mastercam, and the help file is your best friend. Trust me.

 

HTH,

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Oh, something else I forgot, never be afraid to take a job for less money if it means you'll learn something that will payoff longterm. Think of it as an investment. I was fortunate that I only had to do it once or twice but I made that money back and then some within 2 years. I remember in an interview one of the things that impressed a shop foreman I interviewed with was that I did that; took my career education seriously engough to see the long term benefits.

 

I would not say that today I can write my own ticket, BUT, I will say that the years of me moving around from company to company, machine to machine afford me some luxuries today that many only dream of.

 

One other thing.. give back to the industry in some way. Weather it be here online, teaching/mentoring younger/newer operators/setup guys, etc... Give back, don't ever forget what it was like when you were starting out and trying to move up in pay and responsibilities. It's how we ALL get better.

 

produca2, what NTMA are you going to? I taught at the Ontario NTMA for 3 years a few years back.

[crazy^millman]

quote:

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One other thing.. [big Grin] give back to the industry in some way. Weather it be here online, teaching/mentoring younger/newer operators/setup guys, etc... Give back, don't ever forget what it was like when you were starting out and trying to move up in pay and responsibilities. It's how we ALL get better.

---

+10000000000000000000000000

 

Never forget where you came from and what it took to get there!!!!!

[Guest]

wow seeing a trend here. we all had many different jobs along the way.

just thinken outside the box, have you talked to the owner of your company to see if he has any visions of growing ie getting into more challenging work involving new equipment? he may be interested in going in a similar direction.

and yes i job hopped for experience, not because i wanted to but shops all seemed to have there blinders on as to my-our capability's and did not want to change.

 

+ a million to giving back, we must perpetuate those that have interest in persuing US manufacturing.

 

doug

[Kevangel]

Motivated people that push themselves are very hard to find, keep your good attitude and "do something with it" and you will go far.

[Dan@clover]

Experience, experience, experience, don't be afraid to try new things, move around, or for lack of a better term, "show off your skills". If you want to be a programmer, show them you can do it. Prove that your an investment for the company to move forward. Keep teaching yourself new things, and ways to do things, In short, always learn.

 

best of luck

[Santa Fe]

I totally agree with all of you. I have moved from one job to another looking for excitement, challenge and learning. Yes, companies do not like people like me because they think I will last with them only a year or two. On the other hand, I always make sure they get enough in return during the time I work in their places and usually I train people so when I leave the place they will not be uncovered; of course, they never see that.

 

I have also taken less money (only once) only because I wanted to learn a specific trade and one thing I can tell you, once you learn it is yours forever and it will help you along the way.

 

Come up with your own plan, do not let your self be part of someone elses plan (unless it benefits your own plan).

 

And same as other fellow programmers; in my first year of programming, I took lots of prints and models to home to learn more and faster because for an inexperienced programmer that makes the difference between keeping the opportunity presented to you or going back to the manual machines.

 

As you produca2, I am still attending college and as many trainings as I can not only to improve my skills but to improve my English, yes I'm not an English speaker, I started learning English almost same as I started machining (8 years ago) so I call my second language "machinglish".

 

Eventually like me, you will find a good company where you would like to stay and apply all the gained knowledge.

 

Keep the winner attitude.

[produca2]

quote:

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produca2, what NTMA are you going to? I taught at the Ontario NTMA for 3 years a few years back.

---

That is the campus I attend. I took the complete course and am into my advanced training phase, where I plan on inhaling both Mastercam courses (Iam at the end of my first) and then maybe taking metallurgy, and Q.C. Inspection.

 

Thanks again all of you contributing to this thread, I am loving it and in no way did I expect this kind of response.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

I think the only people still there when I was teaching are Carlos Andrade and Jim Fall.

 

When I "retire" I plan on getting back into teaching. It was a very fulfilling experience.

[produca2]

I see Jim Fall every Saturday when I go, He is a pretty funny guy to watch. And I know when I was attending full time a little over a year ago Carlos was still there. He's a pretty smart guy, he wasnt my instructor, but I learned a lot from him when he helped me out.

 

Ron The crazy Millman... I emailed you, I am interested in your homepage link you have in your profile.

[crazy^millman]

Well you have just got a little idea of what this place is really all about. We care about each other and we care about this profession, not just Mastercam. I have made some very good friends and help people via email off the forum all the time.

 

Life is what you make of it, not what it makes of you. People will always try to drag you down if you let them. Put yourself in the position to move and grow and you will grow. Put yourself in a box and live in that box and you will only grow to the limits of the box. There is a world out there, don't be afraid to live in it.

 

You got mail back you were placed as spam so I did not see it right away.

 

[ 03-14-2008, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: Crazy^Millman ]

[produca2]

Thanks again guys, I am glad to be part of this community.

[Bruce Caulley]

Here's my personal take:

 

Actually being able to use a control isn't as important as knowing the capabilities of the control and the machine it is bolted to. Of course until you gain the experience to move into an off-line role, you still need to be competent at pushing the buttons.

 

Always (but not necessarily while on the clock, you might rub people up the wrong way) ask WHY!! Why do we do it that way? Why do we use that tool? Why do we use those cutting conditions? Why do we do the ops in that order? What are other companies doing?

 

Learn as much about the software as you can. There is always more than one toolpath that will produce a similar result. Knowing this gives you options when things get tricky.

 

When your position makes it appropriate to do so, cultivate a good relationship with your tooling supplier. Not just with the sales rep that comes around, but also with the techies at their office and the ones who do applications and special tools.

 

Keep up to date with the latest and greatest in machines and tooling, and not just the ones you use regularly.

 

And since I have been responsible for hiring and firing in the past, it takes a LOT of good credentials to overcome the fact that you jump to a different job every 12-18 months. If I want to put someone on a 12 month contract for a specific project, I will advertise as such. If I want a full time employee, I will ALWAYS be wary of people who have a resume full of non-contract jobs that lasted less than two years, no matter how good they are.

 

Bruce