Multi-Core / Multi-Processor Support

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

This poll's purpose is to see what kind of demand there is for FULL Multi-Core/Multi-Processor support.

[Guest]

What's a Multi-Core Processor?

 

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

[3R!< W3NG3R]

Why has this not been done already?

Is it that hard to do?

I would have thought that the best time to do this was with X, being a fresh start and all.

[YoDoug®]

quote:

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Dual CPU Systems were rare, but now, Dual/Quad Core/CPU systems are the NORM and SHOULD be shown some respect by fully supporting it.

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Experts in Silicon valley say that the 4.0ish Ghz range is the limit for chips with the current available materials. There is going to have to be a break through in materials for faster speeds. I read this in an article not too long ago. the article also said its now up to the software developers to take advantage of multi-cores.

 

With that being said the Cimco-hsm pack for mastercam supports multi-cores/processors. If I am correct its the same developement team and algorithms for both MCX HST toolpaths and the Cimco HSM toolpaths.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

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...its now up to the software developers to take advantage of multi-cores...

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I think that's ALWAYS been the case. Hardware is ALWAYS ahead of Software. I just did not expect Mastercam to lag - ESPECIALLY this long. The reason I'm banging on it right now is I've been working on parts lately(for the last couple of months) that would benefit GREATLY from multi-threading. I realize it's not an easy thing to do on the software end but like Eric said, why was it not implemented when X came out. PERFECT opportunity missed.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

:bump:

[Jeremy Grigsby]

You can still ask people about Mastercam X and up and they will tell you it is multi-threaded. Or was that the next version is going to be multi-threaded? I don't think people really know. I know it definitely isn't. It should have been multi-threaded before X.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

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...It should have been multi-threaded before X...

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Yep.

[Watcher]

 

quote:

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I just did not expect Mastercam to lag - ESPECIALLY this long.

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quote:

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PERFECT opportunity missed.

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They already did it in the past Apps: With NURBS support...

I think that the next years will define who will stay and who will leave the leading positions. (Or even a position in the CAD/CAM market)

More than ever, it is time to listen the customers... Being a zealot is a lovely thing... but we have bills to pay, so does our employers...

Time to market is critical these days... and I bet my best beef that many people here won´t hesitate to switch to other solutions if Mastercam do not make some improvements in the whole software and get more competitiveness regarding its processing time...

 

JM2C

 

[ 10-28-2008, 06:05 AM: Message edited by: Watcher ]

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

From what I've heard SOME toolpaths will use multiple cores in X4.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

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...They already did it in the past Apps: With NURBS support...

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They gambled on that one, BIG TIME... I remember the discussions. I think they gambled right on that one. NURBS is a VERY RARE option. Expensive as hell and now, talk to ANY FANUC engineer and they'll tell you NURBS is old technology. Back in the day, NURBS code was processed at 1ms BPT @ 400 or 600 Block Look Ahead, now straight G code is processed at .4ms (yes point four) plus 1,000 Block Look-Ahead. MUCH faster that NURBS ever was or ever will be.

[Watcher]

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Back in the day, NURBS code was processed at 1ms BPT @ 400 or 600 Block Look Ahead, now straight G code is processed at .4ms (yes point four) plus 1,000 Block Look-Ahead. MUCH faster that NURBS ever was or ever will be.

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Glad I raised that discussion again... This information was priceless... I have to admit that I did not know it... wow.. the things are going really faster... 0.4ms?

 

OK, I got your point and I do believe you are absolutely right (After your explanation, I would not get very impressed if a salesman came here today and with that "old new" stuff about NURBS...)

 

However James, I´d like to raise some further points here:

 

What about the shops which cannot afford to buy the latest machine technology, but that are not using the oldest one too?

 

What if have a 5 years old control and machine that is NURBS capable and that by chance, in this machine model, the spline interpolation is faster than G-Code?

 

What if I am in the middle of the road? If I´m using a well scored CAM system in the market, should not it allow me to use the most of my current technology as well?

 

Are the CAD/CAMs developed to work only with the most modern machines?

Is not the ability to satisfy different demands, even those ones taht are not so common the so called "value"?

 

I´d like to hear some opinions... Put NURBS stuff apart, because on this matter, James is quite right, but what about the general idea?

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

You can't be everything to everyone, you have to focus your efforts somewhere...

[Trevor Bailey]

"You can't be everything to everyone, you have to focus your efforts somewhere..."

****************************************

 

 

that one always seems to elude the masses.

 

we may not have all the tools that we all want at the moment, but what we do have now, present time an past, has given me a pretty good life.

 

i have a pretty massive list of my own stuff that i would like to see the software do. all we can all do is keep asking.....this goes back to the whole majority rules thing.

 

i really like teh enhancement forum. keep those thoughts coming. really nice to read thru some of the posts also and not have them completely off topic be the second post.

 

hyper-threading is WAAAAYYYYYYY up on my list. the majority of my customers are proto shops that do nothing but surface machining. it is critical to be able to calculate one side of a bezel that is 25" x 14" x 2" that has 1000 plus surfaces on the interior and then start working on the other side.

 

good poll james......

[TK-32™]

no

no

yes

 

p.s, I was laughing at "don't know"

[Mjölnir]

At the moment I have a 1GB MCX file with well over 3000 faces on a single solid loaded in X3 and am crunching more toolpaths on it. Windows task mangler reports mastercam.exe*32 has 8 threads.

 

So Mastercam is indeed multi threaded, what seems to be the problem ? !

 

In the end it is probably the beta testers fault, eh?

[Troy Gossett Indepak Inc.]

I have a QUAD CORE Phenom that benchmarks slower than my older machine purely because MCAM sees only one of the four 2400mhz processors.

[Mjölnir]

Now if Mastercam were a 64bit application vs just being compatible with 64bit hardware and operating system....

 

my hourglass might be able to take a well deserved break once in a while!

[YoDoug®]

quote:

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So Mastercam is indeed multi threaded, what seems to be the problem ? !

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One of the computer guys can correct me if I am wrong, but I thought multi-treading was in reference to how an application splits up data to be calculated in a processor while this discussion is about being able to perform calculations on multiple processors.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

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...What if have a 5 years old control and machine that is NURBS capable and that by chance, in this machine model, the spline interpolation is faster than G-Code?...

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There are third party software options available if you would like to use NURBS... MetaCut PRO that will convert your G-Code to NURBS. I've used it before and it is a great tool.

 

quote:

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...What if I am in the middle of the road? If I´m using a well scored CAM system in the market, should not it allow me to use the most of my current technology as well?

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It should, BUT you have to consider the market to get the true picture of where that option is in the whole scheme of things. There are only a few Machine Tool Builders that ship machines with NURBS option. Those machine tool builders account for a very small number of the total number of machine tools sold (past or present). I know that does not make the guys that bought the machiens with that capability feel very good but it's a "fringe" option, like HPCC (G5P10000). Though HPCC is a FAR more common option, it's still very uncommon.

 

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...Are the CAD/CAMs developed to work only with the most modern machines?

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Not necessarrily. CAD/CAM generates more code than manually written programs. Manually written programs are generally more efficient, but, in terms of getting a program to the floor, running and making good parts, CAD/CAM beats manual programming hands down in all but the simplest of programs. So in terms of CNC Memory used CAD/CAM programs need more. But there are features in Mastercam that allow machines that are not "High Speed" to behave more like "High Speed", than they otherwise would.

 

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Is not the ability to satisfy different demands, even those ones taht are not so common the so called "value"?...

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Often there are 3rd Party Solutions to Mastercam's core shortcomings for lack of a better term. Moldplus is a perfect example. Moldplus automates Mold design and compliments Mastercam's robust CAD/Design features. Prodrill is the same, it automates a lot of what is cumbersome in parts with lots of holes. Verisurf adds inspection capability to Mastercam. So you see, Mastercam (rightly so IMHO) is not all things to all people. Matter of fact, I wish they would stick with their 3 Core Produsts (Mill, Lathe and Wire) and dump the rest to 3rd Party Developers so they can focus on important matters of functionality.

 

Like Multi-Threading the app. Allowing functions to be split up amont the processors to crunch faster.

 

JM2C

 

I was going ot put this in the enhancements forum but there was no way to put a poll up there. I wanted to see if I was out of my mind or if I was right. So far, I'm right.

 

Lots of people don't know what Multi-Threading is or what it can do for them so I wanted to give them a way to participate as well. Kind of like the discussions on RAID in years past. So I guess this discussion has been diverted a bit bu it's liek a conversation. It moves around goes here and there...

 

[ 10-28-2008, 08:18 PM: Message edited by: CNC Apps Guy 1 ]

[ak762]

Without leak some info from CNC this thread storm in glass only. IMHO

Let's all together call them for answer

[Watcher]

quote:

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Without leak some info from CNC this thread storm in glass only.

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Well spotted.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

This discussion is going on in the Beta Forum as well and there has been some CNC leak info FROM CNC, but I am not at liberty to discuss.

 

But let's keep this going because IT IS productive!

[NeilJ]

What would be just as productive for many users is making the user interface of Mastercam far less modal.

 

With a machining parameters dialog box open, make a change and regenerate and save your toolpath.

 

With a machining parameters dialog box open be able to verify or backplot and when done automaticly return to the machining parameters dialog box.

 

With a machining parameters dialog box open be able to modify or add a chain and when done automaticly return to the machining parameters dialog box.

 

With a machining parameters dialog box open be able to add or modify a WCS and when done automaticly return to the machining parameters dialog box.

 

How many processors is Mastercam being less modal worth?

 

[ 10-29-2008, 02:26 PM: Message edited by: NeilJ ]