Tool Lengths

[DavidB]

Have a questions guys regarding tool lengths.

 

I have a Makino A66 with a Pro3 controller it has a 128 tool magazine but I have over 250 tools built for the Jobs that reacure on this machine each month.

 

So changing from one job to the next the operator needs to remove some tools from the magazine and load assembled tools as required.

 

What happens is the operator may forget or type the wrong length in when changeing a tool.

 

I have put a digital height gauge next the machine but there is still the chance of human error.

 

Can I get the digital height gauge to load the length straight into the controller?

 

Can I load the tool lengths off an excell spread sheet or from CSV format into the controller?

 

Thanks Dave

[Bruce Caulley]

Are you able to have 250 offsets in the machine? I did that on a deckel with 30 tool magazine that had a cupboard of around 100 tools next to it. The deckel would take 300 offsets so we just assigned a tool to a pocket and only had to re-measure when something broke.

 

Bruce

[chris m]

Can you use G10 or something similar in that control? If so, you could dictate the Gage Length of the tool and pre-load the offsets. I know that presetters can generate TLOs in that format but I think you might be SOL on the height gage.

[DavidB]

We ran the machine with M56

So every tool is H1 D2 no matter what tool number.

The controller grabs the tool length from the tool data.

 

I do use G10's to set the WCS.

code:

---

G10 L2 P1 X0.010 Y-510.080 (SHIFTS G54 FOR 5-AXIS ROTARY TABLE)  

---

[Greg Williams]

You may need to look at a tool chip ID system. Essentally the tool data is saved to a microchip on the tool. As the tool passes through the changer the data is read and passed to the control.

 

These systems work very well but they are not cheap

[DavidB]

Greg I have looked at that and your right it's not cheap.

I have also looked at Blum and Renishaw lasers to detect tool breakage and measure tool lengths in the machine @ around 15K

 

Dave

[Leigh @ Kodiak]

I would be pretty surprised if there is no way to load tool length offset data through RS-232 or a network connection. I know for a fact you can do it on many lower end machines like Haas.

[DavidB]

quote:

---

I would be pretty surprised if there is no way to load tool length offset data through RS-232 or a network connection.

---

RacerEX thats what I was hoping for. There is a RS232 connection on the front of the controller.

 

Any idea how I would load values into the tool data?

 

We run the machine 100% from its data server using a M198 in a main program

[chris m]

Can you write to the Tool Data area in the control? I am unfamiliar with this machine, but OSP, Fanuc, and Yasnac controls will all allow you to write directly to the storage position of tool length and tool diameter offsets; we do it all day long

[Leigh @ Kodiak]

Sorry David, but i don't know any specifics about that particular control. It must say something in the doccumentation for the machine, but failing that, I would suggest calling Makino Support.

[GoetzInd]

Dave,

Can't you just punch the offset page to the pmcia card and load it when you run the program. Or better yet, call up the offset program in the main program. Best case would be 300 offset option. Pretty sure its only $500 for fanuc.

 

Mike

[DavidB]

quote:

---

Are you able to have 250 offsets in the machine?

---

No.

Bruce there is only 99 in the offsets and 160 in the Tool detail side.

 

 

Mike love your sig

"Just run it" dont you which that some times

Is your pic sig a Mazak Integex?

We have an ST200IV with lower turret.

[specv]

David,

try this:

in MDI

M233S1000

Cycle start

 

The M233 will dump the tool offsets from the makino side of the control into a program in this example it will create program O1000

 

then download that program.

 

that program can be modified and read back into the machine with the different lengths.

 

we have a program for each part number and we just update the offsets.

[Craig-B]

You could write a macro to check the Gage length before a tool runs and if its incorrect or missing, it will alarm. I use this on my machines and I check for the length with a + or -tolerance on my Fanuc controls right after the M6. for each tool. This works for me because the tool are all set offline on a pre- setter

 

(Example)

G543 Macro call

H Tool Gage Length

B Tolerance

 

O2000(Misc)

G20

G0G17G40G49G80G90

N10T10

M6

G543 H5.5 B.1(CHECK GL)

M11

G0G90G56X0.Y1.687B180.S3438M3

M10

G43H23Z2.T11

[DavidB]

Graig what does your machine use to check the tool length?

My machine does not have a height presetter in it.

All tools are measured offline.

 

If the machine had tool length measure capabilities I wouldnt have a problem.

Or if I had a larger tool magazine.

 

I have asked Makino for a price to double the tool capacity.

 

Dave

[Greg Williams]

quote:

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I have asked Makino for a price to double the tool capacity

---

Could be Lots more than the tool ID chip

[specv]

we have a macro check that checks the tool length with a value set in the program, if the tool length is not within .04 it alarms out. That saves fat-fingering mistakes.

 

David did you try the M233? I know that will work for you. we never load tool offsets in manually.

[Dave.L]

quote:

---

we have a macro check that checks the tool length with a value set in the program, if the tool length is not within .04 it alarms out.

---

Based on that, are you setting your tools to know values during setup?

 

For non-setup reasons, I would like to also add macro's that check for operator "fat-finger" errors when making tool length and work offsets. You know, they enter .100 intead of .01

[specv]

Our set-up sheets have a gage length value for each tool, and are set-up using a presetter.

So that same value is in the program in the machine, and checks it each time the tool runs.

 

the fixture offsets would be easy as well

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

( )

(WRITING TO TOOL LENGTH OFFSETS )

(FOR TOOL LENGTH OFFSET C... )

(USING POSITIVE TOOL LENGTH OFFSETS )

( )

(L10 = TOOL LENGTH OFFSETS )

(L11 = TOOL LENGTH WEAR OFFSETS )

(L12 = TOOL DIAMETER OFFSETS )

(L13 = TOL DIAMETER WEAR OFFSETS )

(P1 = H1 - H WEAR 1 - D1 - D WEAR 1 )

(P2 = H2... ETC )

(R = VALUE )

( )

(SAMPLE USES POSITIVE TOOL LENGTHS = )

(DISTANCE BETWEEN FACE OF SPINDLE... )

(... AND TIP OF TOOL )

( )

G10G90L10P1R9.9999

G10G90L11P1R.0012

G10G90L12P1R0.0

G10G90L13P1R-.0003

G11

 

This would load known tool offsets for into a FANUC Controlled Machine that has Tool Offset C.

 

HTH

[specv]

James, The pro 3 is a little different. We do not use G10 lines. I will post the format that the control takes. That is why I mentioned the M233 code, it outputs the numbers in a program and that is the format that goes back in the machine.

[specv]

%

O1000

M53 <---START THE DATA LOAD PROCESS

T1 <---TOOL NUMBER

S55600 <--- TOOL LENGTH, NO DECIMAL 5.5600

M54 <----DESIGNATES THE NEXT NUMBER AS NEGATIVE

S78 <----CUTTER COMPENSATION,NO DECIMAL -.0078

 

T2

S74765

S104 <----NO M54 BEFORE THIS LINE MEANS THE THIS NUMBER IS POSITIVE .0104

 

T3

S52518

M54

S13

 

T4

S74517

M54

S139

M54

S8

 

M37<---END THE DATA LOAD PROCESS

M30

%

 

read this into the machine and the tool register will have tool length and cutter comp in it.

Now there are many more parameters that can be filled out, tool life, spindle load, air blast time, tool type, etc... I can post those if you like also, but this is where I think you are headed.

[specv]

David, the Makino side of the control will only have enough spaces for the tools in the machine.

We have 400 offsets but that is on the fanuc side of the machine, the Makino side only shows 128 for the amount of tools we have. So buying more offsets will not help your situation, especially if you use H1 D2 for your current offset.