IN Machine Inspection

[CutItOut]

What’s everyone using for there inline inspection @ the machines. Verisurf, or something else. I'm looking for a solution to help alleviate quality’s workload. I understand that some parts have to be check by quality, but it seems to me that allot of the parts can be checked in the machine, and then verified by manual checks @ the machine. We have renishaw probes with inspection plus. But none of the programmers use it.( Training) Have any of you implemented system to help with this. I could wait almost three days sometimes for a 1st piece.

 

 

Thanks

[YoDoug®]

At my last job we used Renishaw Productivity+. Great software and very affordable for what you get from it.

 

http://www.renishaw.com/en/productivity-pc...g-centres--6252

[gaijin_2007]

If you're using Renishaw probes then look at Renishaw OMV

http://www.renishaw.com/en/renishaw-omv--6253

 

AFAIK though its a rebadged version of Delcam's PowerINSPECT OMV product.

http://www.powerinspect.com/general/omv.asp

 

So if you're using other probes apart from Renishaw you might be better off going direct to Delcam.

[Roger Peterson]

One issue you have is that you are checking a part with the same equipment that made it. So any inherent tolerance issues of the machine tool will affect the production and then the measurement of the part.

 

But, there is a place for in machine probing to be sure.

 

Something else you can do is use something like this:

 

Portable CMM

 

On some machines you can mount this in the machine via a magnetic or threaded base to measure the part in the machine. Or have a portable cart to bring to the machine to do "at" the machine inspection.

[Ron Branch @ Verisurf]

Why do people keep thinking this is a good idea? I was talking to someone at IMTS about this. Story goes like this. They are a R&D shop and do not care about cost. What do inspection on the machine with the machine. I asked why not use something like the Master3DGage to check parts and keep the machine running. I was told it is too expensive. So I then asked would 30 minutes be a fair amount of time a day to say for checking parts? He said yes. I then asked him how many machines they had with probes and that they wanted to check parts on he said 12. I then did a little math and said that comes up to 6 hours a day. He said he was not good with math, but told him I was so he agreed. Now I take it a step further and say what is the shop rate again R&D shop does not have one does not care about one. WOW is all I can first person I ever met where money is not object or even cared about. End of discussion.

 

Let look at this and for those of us who do care about making money lets weigh the money involved here. Take 1 year with 52 weeks and 5 days a week. Now that comes up to 260 days a year of work. So with those 12 machines this company would be looking at 1560 hours of time not making chips by checking parts on those machines. Now at a $50/hr shop rate that would be $78k is lost production. At a real shop rate of $100/hr that is $156k in lost production. Oh, but what people always forget the 2 for 1 rule as I call it. For ever one hour you save on a job you gain 2 hours. So in reality that company lost 3120 hours of lost production because they were checking parts on machines. So the average work year is 2000 hours per machine and in this case that company would gain 1.5 machines worth of time for their shop or using the $100/hr shop rate $312k using something off line to check the parts and keep them cutting parts. Check parts on the machine all you want, but to many of you are not looking at the true cost of not using an external inspection system that will allow you to check parts as an integrated part of the manufacturing process, verses taking a hit to the manufacturing process doing on machine inspection in reality is.

 

Just my cents worth on it.

[dforsythe]

We use PC DMIS NC for all of out 4 and 5 axis on machine inspection. You get a full blow inspection report with all the bells whistles and even matched to a bubble print. I agree with keeping the spindle turning and not checking in most cases. We do a lot of composite parts that are held in very complex fixtures. Being able to check these parts in the same fixture and in a restrained condition is extremely helpful. If we were a job shop making standard semi conductor , aero space or microwave parts I would not agree with this process, but were not so it works well for us.

[robk]

Some of our parts are so big that they won't even fit through the doors into the inspection dpt. therefore we inspect them on the machines. Not a big deal to run a 1-2 hr. long program on a part that is on a machine for 200+ hrs. I have never had a problem yet.

[gaijin_2007]

I've heard the "keep the spindle running and making parts" line before and my answer is that it's not just about making parts, it's about making good parts.

So while we're checking with the external gage arm the CNC is potentially carrying on producing bad parts?

 

I know which option I prefer and have implemented many times (while still making a profit strangely enough).

[Roger Peterson]

This thread took a bit of a turn, so I'll jump in.

 

In machine inspection can be neccesary, O.K., or a waste of time. It really depends on the application.

 

But in most situations using probing is best used for verifying fixturing before running the part, checking critical measurements before re-fixturing, or more in depth probing if other other QC options aren't available.

 

Many probe parts at the machine because the other option they have is to give a part to QC and wait for the results, which means the machine is either sitting or potentially making bad parts until the QC report comes back.

 

Using a portable CMM you can inspect parts very quickly, so your can keep making chips without worrying about running bad parts for an extended period of time.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

BOTH tools have their place AND their application.

 

Using a 30 second probe routine to determine the correct part/material size is in the machine... wouldn't take too many smashed tools to make that worthwhile. RUnning a full inspection cycle on a part usually does not make sense except when running lights out and you are able to buy parts off this way... usually your machine will need a volumetric error map done to determine the accuracy and precision of your machine tool. And this will usually need to be done on certain intervals (Quarterly, Semi-Annually, Anually, etc...).

 

All that being said, the two instances I see used most often and these are definitely good uses are to check a feature for size, update an offset, and re-run, and like I stated above, to determine what program to run based on the material in the machine. I recently did this for a customer. Their operator just loads parts. The pallet goes into the machine and basedon the size of an extruded faeture, the appropriate program runs. ZERO operator intervention.

 

JM2C

[CutItOut]

So, PC DMIS, OMV, OR PRODUCTIVITY PLUS. I will check into these. I realize machining centers are not cmm's, but I could see a use for this application. I'm also not ruling out the portable cmm's like master3dgage.

[Joe788]

I got a box in the mail a few months ago from a company called Advanced Probe Technologies with a demo for a product called Probe Pilot.

 

I'm still a little surprised I've never seen it mentioned here, since it integrates into Mastercam.

 

It's pretty slick, because it just uses the standard Renishaw Inspection Plus macros that everybody already has. It simply generates the macro calls for you inside of Mastercam. If I remember correctly it's about $2500. Money well spent if you're doing a lot of probing.

 

http://www.advprobetech.com/probe-pilot-3.html

[Stewron]

I got a box in the mail a few months ago from a company called Advanced Probe Technologies with a demo for a product called Probe Pilot.

 

I'm still a little surprised I've never seen it mentioned here, since it integrates into Mastercam.

 

It's pretty slick, because it just uses the standard Renishaw Inspection Plus macros that everybody already has. It simply generates the macro calls for you inside of Mastercam. If I remember correctly it's about $2500. Money well spent if you're doing a lot of probing.

 

<a href="http://www.advprobetech.com/probe-pilot-3.html" target="_blank">http://www.advprobetech.com/probe-pilot-3.html</a>

 

Tried to contact them about Probe Pilot but get no response so I'm wondering if they've gone bust?

[taperlength]

My solution was to learn the CMM in inspection. A lot more accurate than the machine's probe and it can completely inspect the finished part while the next one is being roughed.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Tried to contact them about Probe Pilot but get no response so I'm wondering if they've gone bust?

 

I'm thinking that as well. I've tried contacting them a couple times with no luck. Too bad.

[Odin]

We do some on-machine inspections with the FARO arm and FARO laser . Today the Qc guy thought it would be a good idea to leave the arm on the machine while it was cutting chips. Needless to say, we no longer have the FARO arm... along with the laptop... looked amazing flying through the air though... lol

[K2csq7]

looked amazing flying through the air though

 

WHAT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Holy $*^#, what happenned?

[Odin]

They left the FARO arm and laptop on the pallet while the machine was running and a shaving snagged the cable on the faro arm, wrapped it around the spindle, then it launched it. It was almost as impressive as a shuttle launch.