Roll Cutter Around Corner

[Rekd™]

Is there anything in the works on a new release that will allow a typed value when using "Roll Cutter Around Corner", that will cause the program to create say a .005 radius on the corners, i.e. an edge break??

 

This would make life easy if I don't have to create .005" fillets around the outside corners of my parts.

 

Thanks,

 

'Rekd

 

[ 01-08-2003, 02:20 PM: Message edited by: Rekd ]

[BernieT]

What a great idea!!!!

 

BerTau

[P_Scott]

Rekd,

 

The only thing like that for now is in the Lathe aspect of Mastercam on the Finish cycles. There is a setting in the High Speed button of pocketing when using the High Speed roughing method called "Corner smoothing radius". That only allows the toolpath to transition smoothly around a corner during a direction change instead of stopping to turn 90 deg. or whatever the angle on the corner is. That would be a neat feature. Maybe it should be noted in the "Wants for V10" topic. HTH BTW Nothing personal about the Raiders. I'd rather have them win instead of SF or Denver any season.

[Thad]

Rekd,

 

Are you requesting a feature that has been available for years on Gibbs???

 

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

 

Thad

[Charles Davis]

Have you tried using Fillet, Chain option? Works great and allows you to put fillets on only outside or inside corners.

[Scott Bond]

Maybe we could rename it,so the gibbs users can find it.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

[Rekd™]

thad,

 

I cut my teeth on gibbs, used it off and on for years. (So glad I'm not any more.) I also used the original Gibbs, when it was 2 seperate modules for CAD and CAM. You remember those days? Man, that was a powerful program. They lost so much functionality by making it simple. Too bad for them.

 

And yes, I am referring to a feature gibbs has had for eons. Along with their geometry expert. I've brought that up a few times. Unfortunately nobody that has not learned to use it knows of it's true value. It is, IMO, THE best tool for quickly creating basic to semi-complicated 2D geometry, short of importing it from someone else's database.

 

Charles,

 

Yes, I've been using the chaining option, which works ok. It would be nicer to be able to have it set as a default in Screen/Configure, like my retract plane. That way I don't have to worry about it unless i want a sharp corner, which is almost never.

[cadcam]

quote:

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THE best tool for quickly creating basic to semi-complicated 2D geometry, short of importing it from someone else's database

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Have you used the options make a solid Primtive to creat a fast block sphere or Cylinder or the same thing with surface including extrusion?

[gstephens]

quote:

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cause the program to create say a .005 radius on the corners, i.e. an edge break??

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I'm sorry...I thought the point was to draw the part correctly.

 

quote:

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Sorry, couldn't resist

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+1

[Rekd™]

quote:

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I'm sorry...I thought the point was to draw the part correctly.

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Huh?

 

I do believe that was the original post...

 

quote:

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Is there anything in the works on a new release that will allow a typed value when using "Roll Cutter Around Corner", that will cause the program to create say a .005 radius on the corners, i.e. an edge break??

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"edge break" being the key words here... How many of you actually "draw" the edge breaks on your parts...

 

'Rekd

[gstephens]

quote:

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"edge break" being the key words here... How many of you actually "draw" the edge breaks on your parts...

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Most of us, since the "Engineers" can't be bothered with trivial things like that (or MEAN DIMENSIONS - sorry was that out loud??). You know... the ACTUAL part that they want. Sigh!

 

Just because it's a block dimension doesn't mean you don't have to draw it. If you're using a 1/2" E/M to cut an internal 1/4" radius, do you draw a sharp corner? (well, sometimes depending on the situation)

 

I've ALWAYS created EXACTLY what I cut. If the print says 0-.015 edgebreak, I'll draw .005-.0075 radii on all sharp corners. But maybe that's just me. Shall we take a vote?

 

I actually don't like the auto edge break in lathe for the exact reason that I don't want any software (even Mastercam) deciding on its own to cut off some piece of geometry (e.g., sharp corner) that I've created (Then again I've got trust issues ).

 

Alot of it comes down to whether you "just need to get the part running on the machine", or if you have the luxury of creating a full model to work with. For the former, use things like grid and bolt circle in drill toolpaths (no geometry), only create the bottom outside boundary and top island boundaries for pocket, and draw only center points for circle mill (minimal geometry). For the latter, design has wonderful tools to create a whole "picture" of your project.

 

[ 01-09-2003, 07:39 PM: Message edited by: gstephens ]

[Rekd™]

quote:

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Most of us, since the "Engineers" can't be bothered with trivial things like that

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Unless it's a chamfer, I don't know anybody that actually draws edge breaks on their parts.

 

You must be union if your boss lets you waste time drawing edge breaks. Must be nice to not have to worry about money like that...

 

You don't see them drawn by engineers because it's usually called out in the notes or title block; "Break all edges .01 max" for example. Standard machining practice also implies deburring all sharp edges unless otherwise specified.

 

quote:

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I've ALWAYS created EXACTLY what I cut.

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Why? (Must be a union thing)

 

quote:

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deciding on its own to cut off some piece of geometry (e.g., sharp corner) that I've created

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Umm... heh.

It doesn't decide on it's own. You click on that little box thingy and tell it to do it or not...

 

'Rekd

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

I always draw the part in the mean condition as well.

 

As for internal fillets, if I've got + tolerance, I'll put it up there because I like to interpolate that inside corner. I'm with gstephens though, draw what you're going to machine, you want edge breaks, draw them in then don't worry about it.

 

JM2C

 

[ 01-09-2003, 08:23 PM: Message edited by: James Meyette ]

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

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You don't see them drawn by engineers because...

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... they are too freaking lazy!!!!!!! I can't even get the engineers to accurately draw (yes I want that full scale and the size you say it is on the dimensions) what they want. When I get that, then I'll ask them to put in edge breaks.

 

JM2C

[Scott Bond]

quote:

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Shall we take a vote?

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I draw what I am going to machine ---to the mean--, then I get just that. Because the cnc is a robot, I make it (or let it)machine,tap, clean out chips, deburr ,count----I make do everything that I can.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

The Engineer's mantra should be "Why do it right when the programmers will find all the bugs for me?"

 

Truth be told, most Enginers don't know how to dimension properly because they were never taught in school. They are taught "that's for drafers not Engineers". Hmmmmmm.

[Jack Mitchell]

gstephens,

 

quote:

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I've ALWAYS created EXACTLY what I cut. If the print says 0-.015 edgebreak, I'll draw .005-.0075 radii on all sharp corners. But maybe that's just me. Shall we take a vote?

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Great response, with the exception of my choice (break it at .01” – I like the easy numbers).

 

Actually, engineers often do not include such breaks & chamfers in order to simplify a drawing; so many hidden lines can be taken as who knows what.

 

Targeting the mean is exactly what we as machinists and engineers should be shooting for.

 

Not that this matters much, but you have my vote.

 

Regards, Jack

[BernieT]

quote:

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"Roll Cutter Around Corner", that will cause the program to create say a .005 radius on the corners, i.e. an edge break??

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I still like this idea, and, if you don't need it - don't use it.

 

BerTau - I vote 'for'.

[jeff]

Engineers don't draw that because they have absolutely no idea what it takes to machine a part.

Lemme re-phrase: MOST engineers....

I have a couple engineer friends and they don't know an endmill from a screwdriver.

They are just booksmart and it dhould be a requirement that they have 5 yrs hands on shop exp.

I guarantee that almost all prices would drop considerably for the consumer,since the parts don't have to be so tightly held.

My .02

Hope I didn't offend anyone,haven't had my caffeine yet.

[Keith Graydon]

Lets get the verbage right here.

 

Roll Cutter around corners Means the that tool ALLWAYS stays OUTSIDE and tangent to the geometry. literally, rolling around the part edge. This means that it wouldn't "Round off" the corner by generating a radius (or Chamfer) inside the lines of geometry.

 

If you want a new option as described, Lets call it something like:

 

Edge break option

or

Rekd edges (kudos to REKD )

Or

Force drive servo anticipation.

 

Whatever, I draw what i need, as with James M. and GStevens

 

my .02

 

-KLG

[MACHINEMASTERG]

we too draw and machine edge breaks on our parts let the machine deburr all the sharp edges so jose dosnt hack it up looks soooo much better than some filed or scraped deburr job ivote for an edge break option too

[chris m]

I've got to say that I'm with rekd on the idea of being able to have MC automatically generate radii on corners. I program all lathe parts (where the chamfer will fit, of course) with a .010 x 45 chamfer on all unspecified corners; but it would actually be nice to have about a .002R on both ends of the chamfer for a very smooth, sexy part.

 

quote:

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let the machine deburr all the sharp edges so jose dosnt hack it up

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That definitely goes into the "best lines" history

 

If you guys are going to tell me to draw .002R all over my parts, save your breath; I understand that that will work.

 

That does not, however, mean that I wouldn't like to be able to type in ".002" in a box somewhere and have the software do the donkey work for me.

 

On the comments about "engineers" I agree that the guys should know not to design a 3" deep pocket with .03 corner radii AND understand what geometric tolerances are reasonable (not .0001 Total runout on a 3" long shaft diameter), but that's about it. I don't know calculus or thermodynamics, why should I expect them to understand sophisticated manufacturing principles?

 

Just my humble opinion

 

C

 

[ 01-10-2003, 11:03 AM: Message edited by: chris m ]

[MetalMarvels]

As both a Chief Engineer for Honeywell and an owner/operator of my own job shop I fully understand the comments made here about engineers designing 90 degree inside corners and other non-produceable features.

 

At times it is tough to know which side of the fence to come down on. I spend a lot of time teaching engineers how to properly represent the parts they really want without overspecifying them (the old 4-decimal places on a piece best cut with a hacksaw). Some of it takes and some never seem to get it. On the flip side, I have dealt with machinists who wouldn't consider changing the way of doing business even if it saved having to deburr the parts by hand. In the majority of cases it is a simple case of properly educating the individual. I do concurr that "apprenticing" mechanical engineers in the machine shop is a good idea. I have done my time in a tool & die shop along the way. About 30 years ago, I spent my first year as an engineer with Fairchild going from department to department learning every aspect of business (from the assembly line to purchasing). It was a major eye-opener. Corporations just don't do that anymore and I believe that the entire workforce suffers as a result.

 

Having spent several years both drafting and cutting my own parts, I do NOT draw in the chamfers, edge breaks, and other such features on the control drawing. These items are handled best by notes IMHO. The additional lines tend to confuse me (and I drew them!) when I import them into MC. MC has some very nice functions to handle items like edge breaks and larger chamfers on the top edges. In MC, I do add in the vertical edge breaks in my cutting geometry, but a button to do edge breaks would be nice.

 

Just my .02

[Rekd™]

Well, I have to say I'm suprised how many of you draw those edge breaks. I also must say that I, too, draw them. But only because I don't have a choice. And that's what it's all about, isn't it? Having a choice on how to do something? That's what makes MC so great is it's ability to suit so many ways of doing things.

 

For instance, creating multiple depth cuts.. Would you like to have to create geometry for each depth cut or multi-pass you make? How about having to create full geometry to do facing or pocketing?

 

I have a question for those that "draw what you're going to cut"... Do you also draw the edge breaks on the faces of your parts? i.e if you run a chamfer tool around the outline of your parts to create a .005 or so chamfer/edge-break, do you create all that geometry too? Or do you use the 2D Chamfering feature and use the geometry that you used to cut the rest of the part with? If you're using the 2D Chamfer feature, then your statements about drawing what you cut is not true...

 

'Rekd

 

[ 01-10-2003, 11:34 AM: Message edited by: Rekd ]

[Jim Whipple]

quote:

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Having spent several years both drafting and cutting my own parts, I do NOT draw in the chamfers, edge breaks, and other such features on the control drawing. These items are handled best by notes IMHO. The additional lines tend to confuse me (and I drew them!) when I import them into MC. MC has some very nice functions to handle items like edge breaks and larger chamfers on the top edges. In MC, I do add in the vertical edge breaks in my cutting geometry, but a button to do edge breaks would be nice.

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I totaly agree....I also draw the vert edge brakes and a button for the others would be killer

Jim

 

[ 01-10-2003, 11:44 AM: Message edited by: Jim Whipple ]