O/T but i'm curious

[Chris Rizzo]

...Bush's response to the economy:

 

"We must eradicate weapons of mass destruction"..."oh, I mean we must change the regime of that horrible dictator in Iraq"...

 

To do something good for our country, do it in our country! Help our own economy, dammit... Which he has only proved to dismantle. Here's another good topic, was your life better 5 years ago under Clinton, or better today under Bush? Can't wait to hear those replies!

[Rekd™]

quote:

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To do something good for our country, do it in our country!

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They brought it to our country... or were you asleep on 9/11?

 

Now it's time to go hunting...

 

'Rekd teh Stalker

[Scott Bond]

OK CMR

YOU HAVE ALMOST CONVINCED ME.

In about 10 minutes I am going to give Bush a ring and tell him to to call it off.

 

[ 03-19-2003, 08:28 PM: Message edited by: Scott Bond ]

[iowajim62]

cmr,

 

Under billary we had the WTC bombed in '93.

Under billary we had Khobar Towers bombed in 98, we had 2 embassies bombed under billary, we had the USS Cole bombed under billary. Under Bush we have bombed the Taliban and Al-Qaeda. Any Questions ? Now for living in the good ol USA it doesn't matter who's in office. I AM FREE !!!!!!

Just as you are free to sit there in the "west" and throw out nasty little comments. As far as you saying stuff about peoples responses on this Forum, it just goes to show how people like you and others here in this Forum forget the freedoms we all enjoy. If we can't express ourselves, then were not really "FREE". If somebody makes a comment that you don't like, TOO BAD. We are in America. And if you don't like my comments, TOO BAD. Just as I have read your comments and don't like them, TOO BAD.

 

Let's go back to talking about Mastercam

[resjun]

sounds like a lttle UN room

[Brendan P]

Too late Scott.....

Deadline is up!

 

quote:

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"We must eradicate weapons of mass destruction"..."oh, I mean we must change the regime of that horrible dictator in Iraq"...

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NOT HORRIBLE?

Perhaps Cmr should go live under Iraq's regime...

He'd be crying to come back to the USA!

That is if Saddam didn't kill you first for crying about his policies too!

[resjun]

rekd i think you should maybe think about for just a minute that there people all over the world reading all our post's.you are making it sound like a hunting trip.we all should praying for all those who are standing right here right now is this the last time they see there family the last time hearing love one's voice.

 

[ 03-19-2003, 09:05 PM: Message edited by: resjun ]

[Chris Rizzo]

quote:

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Under billary we had the WTC bombed in '93.

Under billary we had Khobar Towers bombed in 98, we had 2 embassies bombed under billary, we had the USS Cole bombed under billary. Under Bush we have bombed the Taliban and Al-Qaeda. Any Questions ?

---

Who was president under the BIG one, 9-11-01?

 

quote:

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They brought it to our country... or were you asleep on 9/11?

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Who are "they", Iraq? Think again -Saudi's!

 

 

quote:

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just as you are free to sit there in the "west" and throw out nasty little comments.

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How about these "freedom loving folks" comments:

 

Redk:

quote:

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I'm all for REMOVING any and all who oppose US

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Trevor:

quote:

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As I said before, the US should shut the door on everyone that is not an American or bording neighbor. Shoot anyone that crosses our border univited and deport all protestors to the middle east

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...

 

You all are not seeing my point, and I'm not at all against using force....But for the love of God use force against those who are true threats to our nation. N.Korea, Al Quada. And once again people, WHO IN THE HELL DELIVERD 9-11 TO OUR DOORSTEP!! If we dismantle Iraq, will that stop Al Quada? Will that stop N. Korea?

[Rekd™]

quote:

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you are making it sound like a hunting trip

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That's exactally what it's been since 9/11. Don't tell me you haven't been watching the news either... I think they might have mentioned it once or twice while we were, you know.. looking for Yo Mamma Bin Laden. The US is NOT the only country threatened by terrorists. And if no country is willing to stand up to them, then we should all just write ourselves off as being a civilized race.

 

quote:

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If we dismantle Iraq, will that stop Al Quada?

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If it slows them down, discourages them, or does anything to anyone in any way to make them think twice about coming here or harboring someone that is coming here or financing someone who is coming here and doing these cowardly acts of terror then we need to do it! (without iraq's and other country's money, they wouldn't be nearly the threat.) Besides, if we don't do anything, it's an open invitation for everyone who hates freedom to attack US.

 

Geez you guys.. wake up.

 

I agree, lets go back to talking about Mastercam. :

 

'Rekd teh Blue in teh Face!

[Bullines]

quote:

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As far as you saying stuff about peoples responses on this Forum, it just goes to show how people like you and others here in this Forum forget the freedoms we all enjoy. If we can't express ourselves, then were not really "FREE". If somebody makes a comment that you don't like, TOO BAD. We are in America.

---

Well, actually, all of these things that ya'll write on this forum are in Canada, to be precise. Unless of course by "America", you are refering to the North and South American continents. Sorry, just trying to cut through the tension in this thread with cheap humor, as any good administrator should

[Guest]

I have been listening to both sides of this discussion and am quite intrigued by your responses. Both sides seem to be lined up on different sides of the fence.

 

I would like to direct some questions to the more vocal contributors of this thread. Please take a minute to answers some of the following questions. I am very interested to hear some of your answers to these questions.

 

1. Fifty years from now, when historians look back at this conflict, who do you think they will say was ultimately the winner? The American or Iraqi people.

 

2. How long do you think it will take to:

a. Conquer, subdue, cajole, and install a replacement government in Iraq?

b. Rebuild Iraq?

c. Route out all evil nations and bring them to the same justice we intended to bring to Iraq?

 

3. How many Allied dead for the conflict:

a. In Iraq?

b. To route out all evil nations?

 

4. What is an acceptable number of dead?

 

5. How many enemy forces dead:

a. In Iraq?

b. To route out all evil nations?

 

6. What is an acceptable number of wounded?

 

7. How many Allied wounded for the conflict:

a. In Iraq?

b. To route out all evil nations?

 

8. Are you willing to send you sons or daughters to fight and die in this conflict if it should last long enough for them to be old enough to go?

 

Thanks in advance for your responses.

 

[ 03-19-2003, 10:15 PM: Message edited by: Marc Lindsey at San Diego CAD CAM ]

[Trevor Bailey]

Marc,

 

What are you really trying to get accross. Nothing that you listed is ACCEPTABLE. It is, however, war time and chips fall where they may. If it means sending my kids to war to fight for AMERICAN'S rights, then I will send them away with a mighty "ata' boy" and a lasting bear hug. You can not put a price on freedom, whether it be monitary value or human life. You fight for the right to be and to be left alone. And you definitely don't turn your should and hope for the best and forget that we, AMERICAN'S were attacked on our own soil.

 

I wish the war would end as quickly as it has started, but that will never happen as long as there are rulers out there that does not know how to rule.

 

To all on this board, I apologize. I truely have meant everything I have said, but I do apologize for what it is worth.

 

For the guy who qouted something from one of my earlier passages, expand you knowledge a little further and read everything I have stated thus far. I do believe at one point this afternoon, you did agree with me on that matter. If you would like in my next post, I will add your quote to my post.

[Guest]

Trevor:

 

I'm just asking questions. When our big military planners came up with there plan for this war, I'm sure they did an estimate of expected causalities. I'm sure, also, that the came up with a number that was considered an acceptable cost in human live for this conflict.

 

I am not trying to sway anybodies opinion.

 

I'm just wondering what people think the answer is to some of these questions.

 

[ 03-19-2003, 10:52 PM: Message edited by: Marc Lindsey at San Diego CAD CAM ]

[Trevor Bailey]

I can't even imagine the kind of numbers that could be possible. It is really scary to think about it. All because of a few bad apples that basically want attention. Do you realize that if the "covert op's" program had not been canned years back, we probably would not have this going on today.

[gcode]

I've been a memeber of Stratfor.com (strategic forecasting) for several years. It has very interesting stuff you won't see elsewhere. Their Iraq War site cost $50/6 months.

 

http://www.stratfor.com

[Jack Mitchell]

Just a brief note to let the forum members know that I am indeed watching this debate and merely observing.

 

What interests me most are the members who have not responded to this heated debate; I just know that Mr. Lovelace has a very comprehensive spin as I’m sure that many know that I also do as well.

 

Let’s try to save some sanity with this argument and try to respect other or differing opinions – we are not always correct in our judgments – let’s face up to the fact that we are angry and worried about this war (as we should be!)

 

Regards, Jack

[Rekd™]

I know, I said I was gonna move on, but one last quote and I'm done on this subject. (for now)

 

quote:

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But for the love of God use force against those who are true threats to our nation

---

quote:

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(AP) Saddam Hussein has shown a thirst for weapons of mass destruction and a willingness to use them, as demonstrated by chemical attacks on minority Kurds in 1988 that killed an estimated 25,000. After the Gulf War, U.N. arms inspectors discovered a well-developed weapons program built with domestic and imported materials.

---

quote:

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(AP) 1974: Baghdad orders the beginning of an effort to develop chemical, biological and nuclear arms.

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quote:

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(AP) 1981-88: Iraq uses chemical weapons against Iranian soldiers.

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quote:

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(AP) Nov. 8, 2002: U.N. resolution 1441 – passed unanimously by the Security Council - declared that Iraq had failed to comply with previous resolution while warning of “serious consequences” if Baghdad failed to fully account for its weapons of mass destruction while helping U.N. inspectors investigate the nation’s weapons arsenal.

---

quote:

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(AP) ..officials say that al-Qaida operatives are based in Iraq, including Baghdad, and that Saddam's regime has helped the terrorist network. There has been no direct link made to the Sept. 11 attacks, although some media have focused on a disputed Czech intelligence report that hijacker Mohammad Atta met an Iraqi diplomat in Prague five months before the suicide strikes. Baghdad has denied any ties to al-Qaida.

---

quote:

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(AP) Iraq has been a vociferous supporter of Palestinian attacks on Israel and Saddam Hussein has offered financial rewards to the families of suicide bombers.

---

quote:

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(AP)IRAQ: The State Department noted that Iraq was the only Arab-Muslim nation not to condemn the Sept. 11 attacks on the United States. The report said Saddam Hussein's son expressed sympathy to Osama bin Laden following the U.S. retaliatory strikes in Afghanistan and that Iraq provides a base to a number of terrorist groups, including the Kurdistan Workers' Party and the Palestine Liberation Front.

---

quote:

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(AP) In the 1991 Gulf War, Iraq responded to U.S. strikes by launching Soviet-designed Scud missiles at Israel and Saudi Arabia.

---

Sound familiar cmr? Ever hear of that kid in, um... where was it... OH! Germany. Back in the 30's I think it was. Do you remember reading about him? I think his name was Hitler. Yeah, Adolf Hitler. Ask your folks about him. Ask your jewish friend's grandparents about him. He killed millions. Saddam is just getting started if we do things your way....

 

 

'Rekd teh Inebriated

 

[ 03-20-2003, 01:59 AM: Message edited by: Rekd ]

[Chris Rizzo]

Thanks for that dose of sanity Jack.

And now that the bombs are falling and the wheels are in motion, I must say that I do support our men and women of the armed forces, for to not give them confidence in a situation that is beyond their control would be a sin. They are doing the job that was given to them.

 

However, what I have been questioning all along is leaders, adjendas, and priorities. I mearly have been asking y'all to open your eyes to the other possiblities in this mess, and not just toe the line that the media and government is giving us...were all on the same side here. Debate and discussion made us the great country we are today!

Keep up the discussion, and that is a very good and interesting link, G-code.

[Rekd™]

quote:

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I must say that I do support our men and women of the armed forces, for to not give them confidence in a situation that is beyond their control would be a sin.

---

:/

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

quote:

---

Here's another good topic, was your life better 5 years ago under Clinton, or better today under Bush? Can't wait to hear those replies!

---

About 12k a year better as a matter of fact under Bush! Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

[Chris Rizzo]

WASHINGTON, March 19 ? A senior leader of Al Qaeda captured early this month in Pakistan has told interrogators that Osama bin Laden personally selected the targets for the Sept. 11 attacks and rejected plans for an even broader assault on prominent American buildings, officials said today.

 

A classified government analysis circulated this week among counterterrorism officials said Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the captured Qaeda leader, has told interrogators that Mr. bin Laden gave Mohammed Atta, the leader of the Sept. 11 hijackers, "a list of targets." The document said it included the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, the United States Capitol, the White House, the Israeli Embassy in Washington and the Sears Tower in Chicago.

 

That's in this mornings NY Times! http://www.nytimes.com/

 

Not to turn this into a politial forum, but it's good to be engaged in the world outside of our machines. Hopefully this one thread will contain the politics!

[Chris Rizzo]

That is what I have been saying all day, we are being diverted from the true perpatrators of 9-11. Let's deal with those Saudi xxxx first, they've already proven their capabilities against our homeland. Iraq can barely send a missle outside of it's border... but Al Quada can fly our own missles into our landmarks. I feel like Bush cannot win the battle against proven terrorists, so he turns to shooting fish in a barrel and calls it national defense...

[ARTY 2003]

wow! i agree with trevor. ALL PROTESTERS SHOULD BE SENT TO BAGHDAD RIGHT NOW. PUT THEM ALL ON A C-130 AND DROP THEM LIKE THAT 21,000 pound MOAB BOMB. (mother of all bombs). bin laden and saddam can kiss our AMERICAN xxxx. along with france, germany, and russia. we will never forget 9/11. NEVER.

[Brendan P]

Hey cmr,

Did you forget that it is also to liberate a repressed country that you have the freedom to NOT live in??

What part don't you understand?

No one is just saying that it is ALL about 9-11!

 

quote:

---

Here's another good topic, was your life better 5 years ago under Clinton, or better today under Bush? Can't wait to hear those replies!

---

How would yours be if you lived in IRAQ?

See....your liking Bush better every day!

[DrewG]

"Here's another good topic, was your life better 5 years ago under Clinton, or better today under Bush? Can't wait to hear those replies"

 

The market had to bottom out after the internet boom. Anyone who thinks the economy was going to keep going skyward at the pace it was back when Clinton was in office is not being realistic. Just look at history. It wouldn't matter who was in office at that particular time. Ozzy Osbourne could've been president, and because of the internet growth, the economy would've flourished. Clinton was in office at the right time. That's all!!! That's not a great point to argue.

 

As for people's right to protest. I believe they do have that right. It's what makes a democratic society work. Would you rather have people shot or hanged in public if they didn't agree with your thoughts or mainstream society? That's what happens in country's like Iraq. I believe in Peaceful demonstrations. With that said, the time to protest is OVER!!!! Forget about it!!!

I am Pro-war and believe 100% in what the President is doing. And yes, I would send my son/daughter to these other country's to fight. Even if they might die. I felt that way about my own life when I enlisted, and I will always feel that way.

As for why other country's do not get involoved like Russia and China. Their way of life and their freedom(if you want to call it that)is never under attack from these Muslim fanatic's. These country's people are also living in hardships. The USA is hated all over the world because of the wealth of our common people due to our democracy. These fanatic's governments keep all the money in their country's(Ala the prince's in Saudia Arabia, Iraq, Iran), and the common people live in poverty, watch us American's with our wealth, and they are jealous. Instead of these poor peasents rising up against the very government's that keep them in poverty, their government have them brainwashed. It's SCAM!!!! Almost all the Gulf country's governments are happy we're going to get rid of Saddam, but they won't publicly say it. They give the US a "wink" and say to their people "we are opposed to this war on Iraq". They're in a tough position though, and are trying to play both sides of the "game". They don't want Saddam in power because he might threaten their country, but on the other hand if Iraq becomes a sucessful democratic society in which the people are no longer poor, than their own people may rise up and over throw them.

 

It all comes down to these poor people being utterly jealous of what "we" have, the way "we" live, and NOT being educated as to the real reasons they're in the position they are. They need to look at their own government's and hold them accountable. I believe President Bush, and our government realize this, and hope they can make Iraq into a sucessful democracy for all the other nations in that region to see. It would be a nation just like Isreal but not a Jewish state, rather Muslim. It's another reason this war scares the leaders of these other country's. Can you imangine the uprising's in these other country's if Iraq becomes a success and it's people are no longer impoverished? It could happen. Iraq has the natural resources to do it. Unlike Afghanistan where it will be a struggle. The only natural resource they export is heroin, and that's not going to go over well. Godspeed the troops!!!!!

 

[ 03-20-2003, 08:15 AM: Message edited by: DrewG ]