Piracy Solutions

[Rekd™]

Lol, DOT

 

I got kicked from their servers a couple times for kicking the hell outta npb and a couple of his cronies.. They keep telling me they don't "kick for kickin'", but it's happend no less than 3 times.

 

'Rekd teh I'll be bringing a sack lunch

[d00d]

hehe nbp has started some new clan called CS I think. 2 Dot guys beat me in the tourny. That's how I ended up in the clan. Got beat by HardCash and snippyX. Got kicked out of the clan for lack of attendance. Was traveling around playing music for a living, was on the rd 9 months out of the year. But they were a good clan, went undefeated for 4 years I think.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

I still believe that MC needs to make Demo like Surfcam's. You can save in a different format than is readable ny the full package. This alone would lessen the need for pirated software by a ton.

 

JM2C

 

Also, I do believe that educational institutions are a hotbed of piracy. I more than do my part though to thwart it where I teach. I always encourage students to contact the local reseller for stuff like posts, training materials, etc...

 

If posts were handled by the dealers ONLY (i.e. taken off the CD) this would also increase the need for reseller support. I think binary posts are not a good thing. Look at Gibbs - no user customizable posts. Not good at all. A tremendous amount of Mastercam's power resides in posts, we need to keep that.

 

Just thinking out loud.

[chris m]

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this would also increase the need for reseller support

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And we would want to do this why? My company paid for the software, a large number of quality generic post-processors is one of the reasons I feel the software is worth the $$; why would I give up the convenience of having those tools at my fingertips? To help CNC Software stamp out piracy? I'm sorry, but I fail to understand why the legitimate users should be inconvenienced to try to stop pirates. I am not a member of the "piracy hurts us all" clan; if you sell software you have to assume that people are going to rip you off, it is part of the cost of doing business. In my opinion, all you can do is count on your legit customers, of which my company is one, to support you and to use hasps and the like to protect yourself from the casual hacker.

 

[ 05-14-2003, 12:03 PM: Message edited by: chris m ]

[Rekd™]

James, please stop trying to re-capture a hi-jacked thread...

 

j/k

 

'Rekd teh Pushin' da buttons

[chris m]

It was just that none of us could understand what the hell you guys were saying

[Bullines]

quote:

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It was just that none of us could understand what the hell you guys were saying

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It's a TFC showdown over Mastercam piracy

[Rekd™]

Do you play Bullines?

 

'Rekd teh Why is the water warmer over here?

[Bullines]

UT2K3 and Warcraft 3, but not Half-Life (not in a long time, anyway).

[Noel]

Those wouldn't be pirated copies of team fortress would they?

 

Noel

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

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My company paid for the software, a large number of quality generic post-processors is one of the reasons I feel the software is worth the $$; why would I give up the convenience of having those tools at my fingertips?

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What, don't want to let your fingers do the walking???

[Bullines]

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Those wouldn't be pirated copies of team fortress would they?

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Many online games, including all of the Half-Life games, use a CD Key/master server setup. If the key is detected more than once, the key becomes disabled. This is in the same vein as some have posted as suggestions for Mastercam. Personally, I'm wary of this idea for Mastercam. Online gamers will definitely have an Internet connection, and usually a broadband one at that. Without an Internet connection, owning online games such as Half-Life, UT, Quake, etc is pointless. However, the use of Mastercam doesn't require Internet connectivity. Convincing everyone to get an Internet connection available to each computer running Mastercam would probably be an uphill battle.

[A-ron1286490684]

There was a study that showed people who use the music sharing software actually bought a considerable more amount of new music than people who didn’t share and trade music files.

 

I am in no way condoning pirated software but I know a few people, (programmers and shop owners), who probably wouldn’t have gone legit had they not been able to give MC a “real” test run over a period of time. I wonder if cracking down on piracy would affect overall sales in a negative way?

 

Just a thought... I have been known to talk out of my arse

[Rekd™]

quote:

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There was a study that showed people who use the music sharing software actually bought a considerable more amount of new music than people who didn’t share and trade music files.

 

I am in no way condoning pirated software but I know a few people, (programmers and shop owners), who probably wouldn’t have gone legit had they not been able to give MC a “real” test run over a period of time. I wonder if cracking down on piracy would affect overall sales in a negative way?

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I read that as well. Some companies exploit this. Micro$oft and Autodesk are 2 that come to mind. The fact that it's in "so many hands" speaks volumes for usability and popularity.

 

quote:

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I have been known to talk out of my arse

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So you speak fluent flatula?

 

'Rekd teh You know you're getting old when; You don't know whether it's a poop or a fart, but you let 'er rip anyway

 

[ 05-14-2003, 03:50 PM: Message edited by: Rekd ]

[CAM-mando]

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'Rekd teh You know you're getting old when; You don't know whether it's a poop or a fart, but you let 'er rip anyway

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ROTFLMFAO definately a candidate for Greatest Hits Vol. 2

 

[ 05-14-2003, 04:03 PM: Message edited by: CAMmando ]

[Mark Lovelace]

Chris and A-ron have some good points. When considering making a change such as requiring an on-line connection, the question should be 'Who benefits?' Anti-piracy measures are something that primarily benefit CNC Software Inc, and its resellers, so the end-users shouldn't have to pay a price for it in terms of inconvenience.

 

Of course, we presumably benefit from a lower end-user price, assuming that curbing piracy results in an increase in legit sales. But will that actually happen? Other than that, the end-user benefits only from the satisfaction of knowing that he didn't pay $15K for software that he could have for free just by selling his soul.

 

Looking at it simply as a cold, hard, consumer reality, I do not want to be put at any inconvenience just to protect someone else's bottom line. I had to shell out the money for the software, and I want to be able to use it freely.

 

Another thing to consider is that piracy is a strange way of increasing market share. The more people use it, legit or not, the more likely that it will be their choice when they do go legit. Additionally, the more pervasive it is in the marketplace, the more it becomes first choice for anyone looking to buy CAD/CAM software.

 

I will confess (as my reseller already knows) that I learned Mcam from a past employer who had an illegitimate license. When I started my own biz, I bought it for myself because I was familiar with it. Eventually, my past employer went legit, too. I later convinced another local shop to buy Mill 9, too. That's 3 sales that resulted indirectly from one illegitimate user. The alternative of taking the original 'pirate' to court would likely have cost the reseller money. Converting him to a legit customer was far more profitable. It ain't pretty, but it's money.

[d00d]

Rekd, FYI will be hanging out on the Hillz sniper server off and on tonight, if ya feel froggy Log on and we'll relieve some "post programming" stress! I'll be under alias "MentalFloss" or the one with a red dot in your field of vision

[Scott Bond]

I am a member of the "piracy hurts us all" team.

If everyone that uses this product pays their share,,then there will be more funds for product development, the product improves ,and the users machining options grow.

On a 5 year lease MC is about $5 a day,,if a guy can't produce enough to afford that ------He must find another occupation.

 

""If you don't pay,, you don't get better""

 

[ 05-14-2003, 06:33 PM: Message edited by: Scott Bond ]

[puzzlemaker]

Some of the ideas to pirate programs, starts in the school system.Students get to use the very best that there is to offer in school.When it comes to doing assignments , they don't have the same programs at home so they get creative.I know of a school who has 1 computer with MC on it, and 60 students.This is because they have a tech who does the programming,and doesn't want students playing with his machine.I hired a sudent out of univer. and his first day he handed me a list of software he wanted me to buy,about 20k worth.These were the ones he was using in school and figured that was what he needed to do his job.We have MC, Rhino,and a few lesser programs.We have never felt the need to steal the means to do our job.Sooner or later everyone has to pay their way.

[Brendan P]

From what I'm reading in these responses is that if a person or company is using a pirated copy of MC software and gets caught or eventually decides to change his habits,all's he has to do is promise to purchase a "legit copy" and he will be "off the hook".

This don't even make sense!

Like I said ....

Where are these people who are being "prosecuted" for this crime??

And why wouldn't the software company want to take it to the fullest extent?

 

PS...You dont rob a bank and then a week later decide to give back the money and then the bank decides to "forget all about it" and STILL give you a loan!

 

[ 05-15-2003, 06:19 AM: Message edited by: BUCKET HEAD ]

[Alias]

I wonder how much the price of Mastercam would drop if we were able to cure the piracy problem 100%. Maybe CNC Software "passes the cost onto the consumer" like insurance companies pass their fradulent claims and other losses to the consumer by demanding higher premiums...

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

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"passes the cost onto the consumer"

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Well considering that only lathe has seen a price increase since Version 6. If you adjust for 1996 dollars, we're actually paying less now that we were then. Imagine if even 50% of the pirates came clean...

 

If ths shops in my local area that were running pirated software came clean, you're talking multi-millions of dollars, JUST IN MY AREA!!! It does hurt us all contrary to popular belief. Southern California would net in the tens of millions as a whole. Gee, you think if Mastercam could increase their sales by even 5 Million that they could hire some more programmers and come out with even more new stuff and fix more stuff that needs to be fixed??? Imagine .....

[A-ron1286490684]

Like Mark Stated better than I could earlier, piracy does have a way of increasing market share. There is a “saturation” factor that does offset the money lost by pirated software. Not many big shops are willing to risk that much over the price of the software. So in general, isn’t it the mom and pop shops, that do not make up a huge market share, that are the worst offenders?

 

How about when shop owners and managers start to have so many applicants stating Mastercam as their most familiar and most effective programming tool… -doesn’t that create large market demand? Many of these programmers were trained and practiced on pirated versions passed around by fellow students. And how many potential buyers have you heard complain that they were given a few weeks of free reseller demo with little or no configuration or post help as their only exposure to what really could be the most impressive software in it’s price range.

 

There was a shop a friend of mine worked at that had just this scenario happen and an employee there who had cracked software at home stepped in, configured the settings, defaults, and edited the posts for their preferences and they ended up buying three seats after they saw just what a powerful tool it was.

 

I’ll say it again I’m totally against pirated software but it might the case that Mastercam has actually benefited from so many people wanting the software legit or not.

 

One of the richest men in the world, Bill Gates, is also the biggest victim of piracy. What does that say about the subject?

 

[ 05-15-2003, 03:24 PM: Message edited by: A-ron ]

[Nominal]

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Southern California would net in the tens of millions as a whole.

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If ths shops in my local area that were running pirated software came clean, you're talking multi-millions of dollars, JUST IN MY AREA!!!

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Thats alot. If thats the case they must be making hundreds of millions of dollars from legitimate users. Pretty good for 8 guys in the back room doing all the work. But I guess its not alot when there's like 500 salespeople.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

There are roughly between 9,000 and 10,000 manufacturers in Southern California. Mastercam is the VAST majority leader in CAM here. Of the hundreds of shops in the area I've been into, less than 10% were running something other than Mastercam. Taking that sample of data, giving a margin of error of say 10% just to be safe, roughly 6,000 of them are running Mastercam. I'm pretty sure that the local reseller does not have 6,000 different customers.

 

It would probably take 120 average single seat customers to generate $1 million in revenue. Do the math. It not only hurts CNC and their resellers but it also hurts sales tax revenue which California is currently SERIOUSLY hurting for. So not only are they pirates but they are tax dodgers as well. Perhaps the state legislatures need to look at software piracy from that angle??? Maybe something may be done then???

 

JM2C