Blade Expert Impeller

[Müřlıń®]

Murlin,

If you're interested I loaded up a multiaxis solution for the floor of the hub. I'm using morph between surfaces using the the two main blades as the morph surfs. The tool axis control is setup to use a tilt strategy with limits active. The main blades are being used in a gouge check strategy tilting the tool away from the blade, the splitters are also used in a gouge check strategy to around them.

 

There is a zip file in the X5_files folder - BE-Impeller_CJep

 

 

Thank you sire

 

I will take a look see when I get home, much appreciated.

[CJep]

Oops, I saved that file off with the bullmill I changed my tool definition to a ball taper mill and now the transition at the leading edge of the splitters is a bit nicer.

[Mick]

Hi Murlin,

 

Do you have Karlo Apro's 5 Axis book? I purchased it recently from Amazon, and I am reading through it at the moment. I'm finding it quite good.

 

I've some some 5 axis experience, but not much. The good thing is, is that we're looking at getting a 5 axis machine, and we're getting Vericut, so I will be getting thrown into it

 

If you already have the book, or your're advanced beyond the book, please ignore my post

[Müřlıń®]

Hi Murlin,

 

Do you have Karlo Apro's 5 Axis book? I purchased it recently from Amazon, and I am reading through it at the moment. I'm finding it quite good.

 

I've some some 5 axis experience, but not much. The good thing is, is that we're looking at getting a 5 axis machine, and we're getting Vericut, so I will be getting thrown into it

 

If you already have the book, or your're advanced beyond the book, please ignore my post

 

 

No I do not have that book. In fact I have no info at all except what i have picked up around here.

 

There are so many little hidden places to get all this stuff set up. Like check surfaces in gouge control like cjep showed me.

 

I am about the least skilled here when it comes to 5-axis so I was thinking about buying some books. I

 

I heard Inhouse and CNC, sold some books also. If I remember my newsletter.....

[Müřlıń®]

Oops, I saved that file off with the bullmill I changed my tool definition to a ball taper mill and now the transition at the leading edge of the splitters is a bit nicer.

 

 

Sweet...X5 MU1 will recognize tapers right?

 

I don't have 6...although someday soon I hope to be current with Maintenance. I find myself lacking funds atm....ror...

[Mick]

No I do not have that book. In fact I have no info at all except what i have picked up around here.

 

There are so many little hidden places to get all this stuff set up. Like check surfaces in gouge control like cjep showed me.

 

I am about the least skilled here when it comes to 5-axis so I was thinking about buying some books. I

 

I heard Inhouse and CNC, sold some books also. If I remember my newsletter.....

 

Here is the book: Karlo Apro's Book

 

So far, I've found it quite helpful. As is this forum

[Jayson Kramer]

you can by the book here with the other Mastercam books.Just so you know

[Müřlıń®]

Oops, I saved that file off with the bullmill I changed my tool definition to a ball taper mill and now the transition at the leading edge of the splitters is a bit nicer.

 

 

Hey I extracted your file but it didn;t show me much. All parar's were default because binary didn't match.

 

Only thing I could tell was u used a paralell cut. I couldn't see any of the important settings.....

[Jayson Kramer]

Hey I extracted your file but it didn;t show me much. All parar's were default because binary didn't match.

 

Only thing I could tell was u used a paralell cut. I couldn't see any of the important settings.....

 

Hey I opened it and was able to review so I saveed again and put it back on the FTP with CADCAM added see if it works this time.

[Müřlıń®]

Hey I opened it and was able to review so I saveed again and put it back on the FTP with CADCAM added see if it works this time.

 

 

Hey thanks jay..

[Müřlıń®]

ok was able to read the file now. It now showed morph between surfs.

 

Thanks CJep for the lesson on what settings to use. Interesting use of check surfs.

 

The 4 stages of gouge control are kinda confusing.

 

The hard part on all this seems to be learning where all the settings are and what the choices do.

[Müřlıń®]

I changed the tool in that file to a 1/2" ball and it does this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Masterm's verify shows gouges. I used the part as stock in the verify and there are a few rubs.

[TK-32™]

Are you verifying with highest quality settings? Sometimes when it's set to fast it shows gouges.

 

Nevermind I see it is. Hahaha

[Müřlıń®]

Are you verifying with highest quality settings? Sometimes when it's set to fast it shows gouges.

 

Nevermind I see it is. Hahaha

 

 

I messed around with this toolpath for 4 hrs yesterday. I finally found the right settings to make it work as a roughing program when using a ball endmill.

 

I do not know why the end results were so different between using the two types of tools. I would have never considered using a 3/8 bull endmill on a part like this anyways. In fact, lets just say for argument sake the fillet callout on the print is .25. I would machine this whole part with a 1/2" 2 flute ball endmill.

After the stock was turned of course.

 

I gotta tell yas, whoever thought up these funny little algorythms was either a certified genius or completely insane ror.

 

Finesse, that is the best way to discribe this one anyways. One must set tilt, stock, limits and margins juuuuuuuuuust right to keep it from gouging. It is not a direct positive approach, you must finesse the morph.

 

I am not sure what the 4 levels of gouge control are and how they are used. But working with just the first 2 that CJep set up, while not the most elegant of solutions, produced a down and dirty roughing program that would probably work on any impeller with or without splitter blades. No extra geometry needs to be made, just 2 chains and color the solid or surface faces and your good to go with a couple clicks. I would use this as a templet for sure to rough with splitters, and set it up to finish floors on impellers without splitters.

 

I am also not sure what exaactly what margins do, but they have an effect on the morph.

 

All in all the files CJep and Jay put on the FTP are very good exercises and they will teach you alot. I recommend everyone learning have a look see.

 

Nice going guys.

 

However I am approaching this one differently as to come up with a more impressive and elegant toolpath so I am dividing the blades and going to use tilt curves to obtain a uniform leftover stock for finishing the blades.

 

I will post a pic of the end results of what the stock looked like when i get home.

 

Stay tuned more to come....

[CJep]

I am also not sure what exactly what margins do, but they have an effect on the morph.

 

Margins are associated to the area type. They are activated when it is set to "Full, start and end at exact surface edges", the margins allow you to adjust how close to the edge of the surface the tool will cut. If the margins are left set to zero the tool will typical run on center at the edge.

 

But don't forget that the tool axis control, linking and gouge check strategies play into this also,..

 

With these toolpaths I usually get a basic toolpath running then add more control as needed.

[Müřlıń®]

Margins are associated to the area type. They are activated when it is set to "Full, start and end at exact surface edges", the margins allow you to adjust how close to the edge of the surface the tool will cut. If the margins are left set to zero the tool will typical run on center at the edge.

 

But don't forget that the tool axis control, linking and gouge check strategies play into this also,..

 

With these toolpaths I usually get a basic toolpath running then add more control as needed.

 

my bad...

 

Somehow your drive surfs were moved off center.

 

I went back to your original file and they were on.

 

This file has been doing some weird stuff.

 

grrrrrr.

 

Back to square 1.

 

Well maybe 10...

[Müřlıń®]

First attempt. Not pretty.

 

 

 

 

Second attempt. Not bad. In fact pretty good without a tilt.

 

3 1/2 hr rough with a 1/2" ball endmill.

 

 

Although this end move was not a gouge I couldnt make it stop.

 

 

 

Little too much airtime.......

 

Going to do the other paths next.

[Guest CNC Apps Guy 1]

Murlin, maybe you could just send the model out to James and he'll have a machine ready program for you in under 1 hour

 

 

 

Go back and read the topic Rob. That is SO... nevermind.

[Müřlıń®]

 

Go back and read the topic Rob. That is SO... nevermind.

 

 

Leme get my templet stratagies worked out and I do that one too...in an hr

 

Without blade expert

[crazy^millman]

Murlin, Have you looked at the 3+2 with Opti-Rough or Opti-Rest? 3-1/2 rough seems like a lot to me.

[Müřlıń®]

Murlin, Have you looked at the 3+2 with Opti-Rough or Opti-Rest? 3-1/2 rough seems like a lot to me.

 

No I haven't. I have never even used that path before .

 

The time was based on 60 IPM. That is more for steel.

I am pretty sure it could be run faster and the roughing steps adjusted.

I just used that as a starting point.

I am concentrating on just learning the 5 Axis paths first.

I make it run fas later.

[crazy^millman]

Murlin, they are great paths for roughing a lot of material off fast. If I was not slammed with contract work I would throw something together for you. Talk to TK we did and Impeller he is working on this way. As far as I know things have gone good with the roughing using these methods.

[Müřlıń®]

Murlin, they are great paths for roughing a lot of material off fast. If I was not slammed with contract work I would throw something together for you. Talk to TK we did and Impeller he is working on this way. As far as I know things have gone good with the roughing using these methods.

 

 

I can see that it would.

 

I rotated the part around and saw it could be roughed out about 85% in one particular view.

 

The toolpath would then have to be indexed 5 more times.

 

Is that what you are talking about?

 

Of course the opti paths require a bull or a sharp. So the fillets would have to be created.

[crazy^millman]

Yes Murlin that is exactly what I am talking about it is like fixturing the part 5 times to do what one fixturing will do. That is the huge advantage of 5 axis machining in a nutshell right there. To many people want to 5 axis and 5 axis and 5 axis some more. Why is that necessary? I did a demo part for a company one time that had the head move 99% of the time to cut a part that only needed 4 indexes to cut the whole thing. 5 axis is awesome and great, but I am still old school on a lot of the toolpaths. The Blade Expert is a awesome product, but unless you are doing it day in and day out or doing it enough to ROI it then most people will not be getting it, so they need to approach it like you are doing. I hope TK post up a picture of the art work he is doing on a part right now. Just wonderful to see work on a 5 axis machine.

[TK-32™]

...5 axis is awesome and great, but I am still old school on a lot of the toolpaths...

 

Yes, Ron showed me how to rough a part in 5 Axis. Like he said, it's cool and all but he also showed me how to rough the part using 3+2 a lot faster and same results.

 

Murlin, it you don't know "Plane = Gview," (Graphics View) you should try it. Before I would create lines to define a plane. Plane = Gview is just fast.

 

Here's the part roughed out:

 

 

 

Ron also designed a really good solid fixture for this part. At first boss wasn't really liking the big steel fixture. "what's wrong with aluminum and why so tall?" After we showed him, "why" he didn't say a word and ordered the material. Best part, this same fixture is gonna work for the next 5 Axis job we are already working.