Makino PS95 V Doosan DNM 500

[DavidB]

Doosan was a DNM 500 linear rials so is the Makino

[DavidB]

Like I have stated previously I will get the surfaces machined measured on the CMM.

The Makino was 2 minutes quicker in it's cycle time.

 

I think the function of having a G05 Q1 R? on the Doosan is the advantage. On the Makino AICC is on all the time.

On the Doosan you can select from (R1 - R10) R10 being the finest finish hence a little slower cycle time, but the surface finsh is best.

 

The cristal ball question is what will the Doosan be like in 5 years? The Makino has cooled ball screws and a DD spindle.

[Eric@HorsepowerInc.]

Like I have stated previously I will get the surfaces machined measured on the CMM.

The Makino was 2 minutes quicker in it's cycle time.

 

I think the function of having a G05 Q1 R? on the Doosan is the advantage. On the Makino AICC is on all the time.

On the Doosan you can select from (R1 - R10) R10 being the finest finish hence a little slower cycle time, but the surface finsh is best.

 

The cristal ball question is what will the Doosan be like in 5 years? The Makino has cooled ball screws and a DD spindle.

. David, you may want to check the Doosan for chilled ball screws. On our 400 we purchased last year in the process of looking for a slight loss of chiller oil we pulled back the guards and behold, chilled ball nuts. The machine spec said it didn't, maybe we just got lucky. Just any FYI.

[Redfire427]

Like I have stated previously I will get the surfaces machined measured on the CMM.

The Makino was 2 minutes quicker in it's cycle time.

 

I think the function of having a G05 Q1 R? on the Doosan is the advantage. On the Makino AICC is on all the time.

On the Doosan you can select from (R1 - R10) R10 being the finest finish hence a little slower cycle time, but the surface finsh is best.

 

The cristal ball question is what will the Doosan be like in 5 years? The Makino has cooled ball screws and a DD spindle.

 

The Makino uses an M-code to control surface finish. M250 is standard accuracy, M251 is high performance mode, and M252 is ultra accuracy mode.

Using M250 as the benchmark, M251 is roughly 30% faster, and M252 roughly 30% slower. This of course depends on the complexity of the geometry. There are also a few tricks you can employ in posted code to make the Makino rip.

 

Carmen

[DavidB]

Carman are you sure M252 is available with the Makino PS series of machines? In the documentation for the machine only M250 and M251 where available. We used M251 I will run the test again on the Makino with M252 if it's there. Thank you for the info.

 

I think M252 might be for SGI on higher end controllers. The PS series has AICC

 

What settings in MC suit the Makino?

 

Cheers Dave

[Newbeeee™]

Like I have stated previously I will get the surfaces machined measured on the CMM.

The Makino was 2 minutes quicker in it's cycle time.

 

I think the function of having a G05 Q1 R? on the Doosan is the advantage. On the Makino AICC is on all the time.

On the Doosan you can select from (R1 - R10) R10 being the finest finish hence a little slower cycle time, but the surface finsh is best.

 

The cristal ball question is what will the Doosan be like in 5 years? The Makino has cooled ball screws and a DD spindle.

I thought the R value affected acc/dec only - to give better profile accuracy by slowing into the corners.

So corners can be better finish perhaps (and obviously better form/accuracy) but would this make much difference to the overall surface finish or is it something else doing this?

[DavidB]

I thought the R value affected acc/dec only - to give better profile accuracy by slowing into the corners.

So corners can be better finish perhaps (and obviously better form/accuracy) but would this make much difference to the overall surface finish or is it something else doing this?

 

Yes so if the machine is not following a 3D surface so precisely like over shooting corners surface finish is effected.

 

Here are the two test sample I did

 

 

[Guest MTB Technical Services]

I thought the R value affected acc/dec only - to give better profile accuracy by slowing into the corners.

So corners can be better finish perhaps (and obviously better form/accuracy) but would this make much difference to the overall surface finish or is it something else doing this?

 

AICC/AIAPC Format:

 

Enable: G05.1 Q1 Rx

 

Where:-Rxx provides the user with the option of selecting from 10 fixed settings (R1 -R10)which contrast Tool Path Speed (feedrate) with Positioning Accuracy,

 

G05.1 Q1 R1 - Toolpath Speed has priority over Positioning Accuracy

G05.1 Q1 R2

G05.1 Q1 R3

G05.1 Q1 R4

G05.1 Q1 R5 - Tool Path Speed and Positioning Accuracy have Equal Priority

G05.1 Q1 R6

G05.1 Q1 R7

G05.1 Q1 R8

G05.1 Q1 R9

G05.1 Q1 R10 - Positioning Accuracy has priority over Tool Path Speed

 

R1-R2: Smoother Axis Motion and Improved Accuracy.

R3-R5: Die & Mold - Roughing.

R6-R8: Die & Mold - Semi-Finish.

R9-R10: Best Accuracy, Finish, Form & smooth axis motions.

 

R1 = Rough Machining

R10 = Finish Machining

 

(Using R1, a 90° corner produced at a feedrate of 10,000 mm/min will produce an approximate deviation of 0.15mm.)

 

Cancel: G05.1 Q0

 

http://www.mtbtech.n...Simplified.aspx

 

 

FYI, AICC/AIAPC is on by default on all Doosan Mills with an R5 value.

In the Doosan Multitasking Machines, it is automatically activated with an R5 value any time TCP mode is invoked.

 

The Doosan DNM MKII Series was just recently released.

http://t.e2ma.net/message/lbjkk/hg8zvs

[Newbeeee™]

Hi Tim,

Good to 'see' you

Thanks for this - nice explanation.

What I would say is that the Doosans look to be very well set-up as standard then - if R1 (Rough) produces a path deviation of only 0.15mm at very high feed, that is very very good in my experience.

[Redfire427]

Carman are you sure M252 is available with the Makino PS series of machines? In the documentation for the machine only M250 and M251 where available. We used M251 I will run the test again on the Makino with M252 if it's there. Thank you for the info.

 

I think M252 might be for SGI on higher end controllers. The PS series has AICC

 

What settings in MC suit the Makino?

 

Cheers Dave

I believe you are correct regarding the M252. I program and run our other Makino's that have a better control. Our V56, S56, and F5 all use M252. I believe our PS95's do not.

 

What does the Makino like? Lots of code. Generate your toolpaths at a very fine tolerance, and if you want the ultimate speed and accuracy, remove arc filtering. Creating arcs in a high-speed toolpath requires the processor in the control to "think". Generating strictly linear code allows the machine to utilize all its processing power to control surface accuracy and accel/decel. A strictly linear g-code file will be huge by comparison, but trust me, it works. This is the method that Makino teaches at their die-mold classes.

 

Carmen

[DavidB]

Again Carman I don't think the Fanuc Oi-MD controller on a PS would keep up with all linear moves. You cant compare the Pro3 controller on the PS series to the Pro5 controller your used too.

But I will try. In saying that I think the Doosan would be the same as its the same controller.

[Guest]

That 0i is nowhere near as fast as a 30 series. You can tune it up pretty good, but there's still a pretty big gap is performance and functions the 30 series can do vs. what the 0i can do.

[DavidB]

The CMM report came back today I also did a Ra test for surface finish there is a clear winner. Guess which machine?

[betts]

HAAS?

[DavidB]

^LOL

[CADCAM3D5AXIS]

NO WAY ITS ENCO ALL THE WAY

[mkd]

 

high optioned machines here^^^, so no direct comparo

thought it was a pretty cool vid

[Guest]

 

high optioned machines here^^^, so no direct comparo

thought it was a pretty cool vid

Yep, not only options, but you need to add servo tuning as well to get it right.

[Redfire427]

The CMM report came back today I also did a Ra test for surface finish there is a clear winner. Guess which machine?

 

Can you enlighten us with the answer?

 

How were the accuracies?

[DavidB]

I ended up buying a Doosan DNM 500

[Guest]

Doosan beat out a Makino on performance????

 

[Guest MTB Technical Services]

Doosan beat out a Makino on performance????

 

 

Yes!

 

I have always had a hard time believing that Makino could actually hold the tolerances they claim for the price.

 

I just wrote a post for a V33i-5XB.

Makino says the resolution for INCH is 0.00001 and for MM it's 0.0001.

They are also claiming a resolution of 0.0001 in their rotary axes.

 

Their SGI High Speed Mode tolerances are more of the same.

Since they are using FANUC hardware I thought these claims were specious from the get go.

Now we can safely say these claims are nothing but smoke and mirrors for sales droids.

 

Doosan vs DMG-Mori anyone?????

[Guest]

Yes!

 

I have always had a hard time believing that Makino could actually hold the tolerances they claim for the price.

 

I just wrote a post for a V33i-5XB.

Makino says the resolution for INCH is 0.00001 and for MM it's 0.0001.

They are also claiming a resolution of 0.0001 in their rotary axes.

 

Their SGI High Speed Mode tolerances are more of the same.

Since they are using FANUC hardware I thought these claims were specious from the get go.

Now we can safely say these claims are nothing but smoke and mirrors for sales droids.

 

Doosan vs DMG-Mori anyone?????

 

One of our customers has a Makino (bought instead of a Matauura MAM72) and it's had... ummmmm.... issues shall we say. (or at least that's what my source on the inside told me). There's some kinematic error that they can't get figured out, or if they have it took like a year. Maybe Makino is going downhill too.

 

Beating Mori... As of late... they are NOT the same machines they used to be. Dr. Mori is more concerned with buzzwords, acronyms and marketshare than he is building a quality machine. So that would be like taking candy from a baby. Matsuura has actually been displacing NMV's at what should be (to Mori) an alarming rate. Guess they are not the "MAM Killers" they advertised (Mori AND Ellison WORDS not mine).

 

Go head up against a Kitamura, Matsuura or Yasda (in no particular order, all 3 are very good machine tools) if you want to go FANUC on FANUC and want a good fight. If you want to go head up against Siemens or OSP vs FANUC you could go Matsuura LS or something in Okuma's Mold and Die lineup.

[Guest MTB Technical Services]

Kitamura, Matsuura and Yasda all make great machines.

Mitsui-Seiki, SNK as well.

 

Makino makes a good machine but the resolution they claim bothers me.

 

OKUMA makes a quality machine and has arguably the best thermal compensation on the market.

 

What i HATE about them is that Rube Goldberg designed the CNC Programming syntax.

Nothing makes any sense at all.

They have to be different just to say they are different.

A B-Axis is a B-AIxs. Why in God's name did they decide they needed a B-Axis Mode?

 

Their quality aside, I would NEVER put an OKUMA in any shop I had anything to do with.

I'm dealing with a MULTUS post for Pro/NC right now and NOTHING about a MULTUS or MACTURN is intuitive in the slightest.

So much so that the CL data is full of PPRINT and INSERT commands.

 

Big props to YoDoug for his assistance with OKUMA documentation.

I'd be sunk without it.

 

I feel sorry for anyone who buys a MULTUS or a MACTURN and programs offline.

[Mr. M]

I dunno, I've programmed Multus machines for some time. They seem much more intuative to me than the other B-Axis machines I've run/seen

 

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