Floor thickness

[Eric@HorsepowerInc.]

I am looking to get your guys experience and knowledge on floor thickness. We are set to receive our new horizontal a month or so from now and looking for floor advice. I know thicker the better, but need honest advice on what minimum is safe for this machine. Weight is about the 29K mark, we are having the floor cored this week and tested, I'm guessing in the 4-6in range. Foundation specs say 23in but that is a way over kill I believe, again I know thicker the better, but that cost big dollar. Just the concrete(4000psi) mix at 15in would run $60000. What are you guys running machines on with close to that weight?

[Honeywell Joe]

Three years ago, we installed a VF-6 . I think the weight is around 25K.

I'm not sure if our floor is 4" or 6", but it's not thick enough for this machine.

We've had to have it leveled twice since it was installed. So it's going to mean a service call every year or two.

Specs call for something like a 3ft. foundation, and like you mentioned, that would be very expensive. And we're in a leased building.

Our manager says "oh well, if we have to have them level it every year, that's what we'll do".

[Guest]

Eric that's about right. I'd say minimum 18" with rebar, etc...

 

When you run a thin floor a couple things happen, as the machine moves around, the floor below it flexes. When that happens you start to see geometry issues with parts AND the machine. The larger the parts, the bigger the error.

 

It's a necessary cost IMHO.

[Sticky]

23" isn't bad, most Japanese builders want to see 1 meter/3ft for something that heavy. You price for 15" is out to lunch, unless you fat fingered an extra zero on there. Around here a 3ft 4000psi foundation for a hmc is around 20k (as of a few years back anyways).

 

Anything less then 15" reinforced at that weight and you are just going to battle machine squareness. If it goes far enough out of square you can toast your rails and screws too. Machining of any significant size square is going to be a disaster without a good foundation.

[Redfire427]

I am looking to get your guys experience and knowledge on floor thickness. We are set to receive our new horizontal a month or so from now and looking for floor advice. I know thicker the better, but need honest advice on what minimum is safe for this machine. Weight is about the 29K mark, we are having the floor cored this week and tested, I'm guessing in the 4-6in range. Foundation specs say 23in but that is a way over kill I believe, again I know thicker the better, but that cost big dollar. Just the concrete(4000psi) mix at 15in would run $60000. What are you guys running machines on with close to that weight?

 

I would get another quote for the foundation. I just put in two foundations last summer ( one for a Makino and another for a Mikron ). Each foundation was roughly 10 feet x 10 feet, 16 inch thickness, two levels of rebar, perimeter isolation, saw cutting, excavation, removal, clean-up, etc and the total bill was just under $10,000. Your quote for $60K seems a little out of whack, unless the square footage is massive.

 

Carmen

[Newbeeee™]

I have seen water table be a real issue - rain rain rain (it is the UK!) and then machines go out of square.

I've also seen machines put across an expansion joint, and then move...

The thicker the better but on a sound base as well - no good being 3ft thick concrete set on quicksand.

[SBerg]

We have added three machines and had pads cut and poured for each one with perimeter isolation over the last few year as they were installed. And they were all 24" plus with rebar.

[Machineguy]

Get a concrete contractor out there to work up the #'s. Its based on weight of the machine, concrete, type of soil under your plant floor. You might need a soil compaction test.

That will tell what you need.

Don't forget the isolation pads all around.

Usually its a 4000-6000lb highway mix. That's not cheap.

Being in Pa, I would say its going to be union scale.

 

 

Machineguy

[Eric@HorsepowerInc.]

Ok, so a follow up on this. We have 2 other contractors stopping, apparently the first guy was way, way off in left field. They both thought we should be able to go 23" or more in the 12-15k range. : ). Much happier already. I think the first guy got his math wrong, or looked at the parts we make and saw$. Keep you posted on an update next week. Thanks to everyone that took the time. I will post pics as we progress.

[Guest]

Skimping on a foundation is a lot like skimping on a scope on your bada$$ high dollar rifle. Just don't do it!

 

Glad you got some concrete guys that don't have anal cranial inversion syndrome.

[Rstewart]

Three years ago, we installed a VF-6 . I think the weight is around 25K.

I'm not sure if our floor is 4" or 6", but it's not thick enough for this machine.

We've had to have it leveled twice since it was installed. So it's going to mean a service call every year or two.

Specs call for something like a 3ft. foundation, and like you mentioned, that would be very expensive. And we're in a leased building.

Our manager says "oh well, if we have to have them level it every year, that's what we'll do".

 

You guys have to call Haas to have the service man LEVEL your VMC?!?!?

[Honeywell Joe]

You guys have to call Haas to have the service man LEVEL your VMC?!?!?

 

No, not just level. Square it up using the Renishaw Ball Bar. Gets it as close to perfect as possible.

This method also indicates backlash on all three axis so they can be compensated for.