Tombstone Machining

[CountBraden]

Are there any plans for Mastercam to implement a Tombstone Management System similar to Gibbscam?

[Sticky]

I wouldn't hold your breath. Gibbs has only had this for about 10 years?

[Jkermit83]

Why does this not exist in MCAM?

[Watcher]

Vero just added it to Edgecam 2017 as well...

[Watcher]

For long time I did disagree with CNC Software strategy to not pursue certain advanced functionality in Mastercam. Time proved I was wrong because they already broke a couple of years ago the barrier of 200k sold seats.

 

I realized they were focusing in specific segments and were not trying to be everything to everyone. And that's a perfectly valid business strategy if you ask me now.

 

But for some reason I still believe that a TMS falls perfectly in the niches CNC is trying to cover very well, that is production machining. Mastercam 2D capabilities are probably the best out there and a TMS could maximize it significantly for job shops looking for better machine utilization and faster programming.

 

With this recent addition in Edgecam, the chances to see it in Mastercam just got slightly increased I think.

 

Jm2c

[GoetzInd]

I do almost only HMC programming and can get the same results out of MC. But gosh darn it is it difficult.

 

Mike

[Tim Johnson]

How does Gibbs tombstone management system work if you have a 25 part work order and your running 8 parts on a tombstone? Do you have to reprogram for the last part or do you run 7 "air" parts?

[Sticky]

I do almost only HMC programming and can get the same results out of MC. But gosh darn it is it difficult.

 

Mike

 

Same, but I would say almost the same results, and it takes 10x as much work. If you watch all three of their tombstone videos it's kind of depressing thinking about how hard it is to do the same thing in mc.

 

How does Gibbs tombstone management system work if you have a 25 part work order and your running 8 parts on a tombstone? Do you have to reprogram for the last part or do you run 7 "air" parts?

 

You just select which parts you want to run and repost the program. Doesn't even matter if you have different parts on different planes, or a mixture of different parts on the same plane, it will manage all of your tools correctly.

 

As well as having a slick tombstone management system, Gibbs also had multiple stock and functioning machine sim for hmc's, 13 years ago:

 

 

 

[Tim Johnson]

 

GoetzInd, on 21 Jan 2017 - 10:47 AM, said:

I do almost only HMC programming and can get the same results out of MC. But gosh darn it is it difficult.

 

Mike

 

Same, but I would say almost the same results, and it takes 10x as much work. If you watch all three of their tombstone videos it's kind of depressing thinking about how hard it is to do the same thing in mc.

 

Tim Johnson, on 22 Jan 2017 - 08:16 AM, said:

How does Gibbs tombstone management system work if you have a 25 part work order and your running 8 parts on a tombstone? Do you have to reprogram for the last part or do you run 7 "air" parts?

 

You just select which parts you want to run and repost the program. Doesn't even matter if you have different parts on different planes, or a mixture of different parts on the same plane, it will manage all of your tools correctly.

 

We have 10 HMCs that setup from 1 to 4 times a day (two shifts) six days a week. I don't have time to stop what I'm doing, setup and post up a separate program for spare stock and run it through Vericut for every odd numbered run. I was questioning the efficiency of such a process.

 

Our programs are setup with macro processes that give the operators have full control of how many parts to run and which fixtures/ position will be used. It takes them less than two minutes to do and they can do it while the other pallet work is done.  In my opinion this is the more efficient process.

[Sticky]

We have 10 HMCs that setup from 1 to 4 times a day (two shifts) six days a week. I don't have time to stop what I'm doing, setup and post up a separate program for spare stock and run it through Vericut for every odd numbered run. I was questioning the efficiency of such a process.

 

Our programs are setup with macro processes that give the operators have full control of how many parts to run and which fixtures/ position will be used. It takes them less than two minutes to do and they can do it while the other pallet work is done.  In my opinion this is the more efficient process.

 

You could do the same in Gibbs, as any software if you want to use a Macro for that.

 

Our internal policy is that only full fixtures/tombstones get loaded. We don't run partials as we had a few incidents where screws and such from fixtures backed out during machining and caused some problems. We just buy a little more material to fill the tombstone, or save the remaining stock for the next run.

[Jkermit83]

What is an example of the macros you are using?  I would love to empower the operators rather than reposting all the time for every odd circumstance.

[jlw™]

I think it is the little things like this that separate the big dogs from the dogs that need to stay on the porch. Man up, create geo and get the path you want for reliable and repeatable results.

[Sticky]

What is an example of the macros you are using?  I would love to empower the operators rather than reposting all the time for every odd circumstance.

 

For the most part, these Macro's are hard earned and built by the people using them. Rarely are people willing to part with this stuff for free, not just because of the time that went into building them, but also because of the amount of debugging and training that is involved in using them for different controls, different shop culture etc.

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

Why does this not exist in MCAM?

 

Because eye candy is more important than productivity for marketing purposes.

[Watcher]

Because eye candy is more important than productivity for marketing purposes.

Since many products neglect this as well, it makes me wonder if Gibbs has some sort of active patent on their solution since they pioneered it.

[Sticky]

Since many products neglect this as well, it makes me wonder if Gibbs has some sort of active patent on their solution since they pioneered it.

 

It's not like they couldn't have come up with something different. Aside from that, I'm not sure what year Gibbs actually came out with the TMS, but based on the 2004 release date all MC needs to do is wait 3 more years for the patent to be up

 

Then they would only be 20 years behind. In software, that's no big deal, right?

[GoetzInd]

 

 

 I would love to empower the operators

You must have better operators

 

Mike

[Sticky]

You must have better operators

 

Mike

 

Or, he has yet to learn a very valuable lesson

[Tim Johnson]

What is an example of the macros you are using?  I would love to empower the operators rather than reposting all the time for every odd circumstance.

When I get time I'll PM a program to you. Do you do more vise work or mainly tombstone?

[Jkermit83]

When I get time I'll PM a program to you. Do you do more vise work or mainly tombstone?

I'm mostly looking into tombstone best practices.  Most of our vice work is done on verticals.

[Shawn Wentzel- Wenteq Inc]

Featurecam has this same functionality.  It is really nice because it minimizes tool changes.  For instance if all the parts get faced on each side of the pallet (completely different parts and programs), it will face everything before moving to the next tool.

[Mick]

 Mastercam 2D capabilities are probably the best out there

 

 

In fairness, I think there are decent number of applications out there with 2D capabilities as good as, and in the area of stock recognition, superior to Mastercam. Certainly for ease of use, MC is in the upper bracket though.

 

It's not like they couldn't have come up with something different. Aside from that, I'm not sure what year Gibbs actually came out with the TMS, but based on the 2004 release date all MC needs to do is wait 3 more years for the patent to be up

 

Then they would only be 20 years behind. In software, that's no big deal, right?

 

Mill-Turn *cough* LOL

[Tim Johnson]

Jkermit83

 

I sent you a PM...

[Watcher]

In fairness, I think there are decent number of applications out there with 2D capabilities as good as, and in the area of stock recognition, superior to Mastercam. Certainly for ease of use, MC is in the upper bracket though.

 

 

Mill-Turn *cough* LOL

I think you found the sweetspot here. Specially about chamfering toolpaths...

[Guest]

Because I made a promise to two old codgers a LONG time ago as a n00b machinist (that I would share whatever I was taught and whatever I learned), here's a decent snippet that should get your feet wet in to the world of MACRO programming.

 

Obviously this MACRO doe not take every situation and possibility into account, it is therefore given with no claims of warranty, fitness, or accuracy. If it creates a crash, it's not my fault, it is the fault of who is driving the machine tool. Enjoy.

 

THis is the best example I can part with.

 

%
O1111( WORK OFFSET ARAY )
 
(******************************)
( G54.1 P1 )
G90G10L20P1X0Y0.Z0B0.
(X ZERO IS )
(Y ZERO IS )
(Z ZERO IS )
(B ZERO IS )
(******************************)
 
#502=0(INITALIZE P#)
#122=4.(NUMBER OF INDEX'S IN
#123=90(B INDEX AMOUNT)
#112=3.(NUMBER OF STEPS IN Y)
#113=1.(Y STEP AMOUNT)
#102=3.(NUMBER OF STEPS IN X)
#103=1.(X STEP AMOUNT)
IF[#122GT1]THEN#122=5(B STEP MAX SAFETY)
IF[#112GT1]THEN#112=5(Y STEP MAX SAFETY)
IF[#102GT1]THEN#102=3(X STEP MAX SAFETY)
 
(B LOOP)
#121=1
#124=#14004
WHILE[#121LE#122]DO1
 
(Y LOOP)
#111=1
#114=#14002
WHILE[#111LE#112]DO2
 
(X LOOP)
#101=1
#104=#14001
WHILE[#101LE#102]DO3
 
#502=#502+1
G90G10L20P#502X#104Y#114Z#14003B#124
G4X1.
 
#101=#101+1
#104=#104+#103
END3
#111=#111+1
#114=#114+#113
END2
#121=#121+1
#124=#124+#123
END1
 
 
M1
T1001M6
M08
#501=1
WHILE[#501LE#502]DO1
M11
G54.1P#501G0G90G43H99X0Y0Z4.B0.S2500M03
M10
M08
( PERFORM OPERATION )
G0X-1.Y-1.S2500
G17
M28
Z.878
G1Z.768F40.0
G41D99X1.F22.5
Y1.
X-1.
G40Y-1.
G0Z3.
#501=#501+1
END1
M9
M29
G91G28Z0M219
G91G30X0Y0
G49
M1
 
 
M30
%