False tool break detection

[Cory M. Pio]

I'm losing sleep over this. Our 32 pallet Matsuura will not run because of tool touch off problems. The machine will register a tool as broken that is not. No chips on the tool or anything. 

We replaced the tool touch probe.

 

We had the Master MAtsuura Tech out for another issue. The machine has a tool orientation screwup that has been an issue since new.  Of course, the false tool break problem didn't happen when he was at our plant. Everytime the Matsuura tech comes out the bill is 5Gs.

 

The control is Siemens 840Di.

 

Has anyone heard of false tool alarms with Siemens or Matsuura Cublex/MAMs?

 

Thanks for any suggestions.

[civiceg]

 

 

We replaced the tool touch probe.

 

What kind of probe is it? Also are you setting a tolerance for breakage?

[jlw™]

I saw that all the time on a Grob with 840D. I don't think the control has anything to do with it. We had an identical machine right beside it that never did it once that I recall. As pointed out, open up the tolerance on the break detection as they usually perform this probe very fast.

[Cory M. Pio]

I saw that all the time on a Grob with 840D. I don't think the control has anything to do with it. We had an identical machine right beside it that never did it once that I recall. As pointed out, open up the tolerance on the break detection as they usually perform this probe very fast.

G0G90G49G53Z0.0;Macro 'TOOL_BREAK' Selected.M9M132G49G53Z0.0M5G0 G90 B0G65 P9301 B1. M1.M5M09G49G53Z0.0M132G28B0.0C0.0M131G53X0.0Y0.0M98 P8888M98P1M30

This is the code... I've never seen an H for this macro. My code coming out of camplete has been the same for 2 years in this tool probe section. 

 

The RENISHAW probe is the square CL-2 touch off that does turn tools and rotating tools.

 

I;m going to look into the H value monday... But it seems like something else cause the machine ran 25 pallets on friday and saturday than all of the sudden three broken tools(that are not really broken). Strange

[Cory M. Pio]

What kind of probe is it? Also are you setting a tolerance for breakage?

See code above it's not a usual g65p985X sub program like fanuc... I have to look into the tool macro from renishaw. But  no H value callout on the sub program line.

[Newbeeee™]

I know of one MAM in the UK which had problems with this. And it was attributed to too coarse a filter on the thru tool coolant.

The very very very fine chips got through and would back up but only on one tool - can't remember exactly what/why, but the holder was getting coated slightly and standing out too far.

Over time and it took a while to pin it down though.

[Cory M. Pio]

I know of one MAM in the UK which had problems with this. And it was attributed to too coarse a filter on the thru tool coolant.

The very very very fine chips got through and would back up but only on one tool - can't remember exactly what/why, but the holder was getting coated slightly and standing out too far.

Over time and it took a while to pin it down though.

Hmm this is interesting...our filter is probably long over due. I set a reminder to change ours monday.

 

Do you have a 840Di?

 

THANK YOU 

 

I don't really have a contact at Matsuura. I know the service is crazy. You have to fly in a genius to even work on the machine.

[Cory M. Pio]

I saw that all the time on a Grob with 840D. I don't think the control has anything to do with it. We had an identical machine right beside it that never did it once that I recall. As pointed out, open up the tolerance on the break detection as they usually perform this probe very fast.

JLW,

 

I don't have an H variable on my g65 line presently. So is the tolerance in the sub program itself?? 

[jlw™]

In our two Grob BZ800s it was on the tool data page. You could change it for every tool individually. I do not remember ever having H word in ours either. I'll look for some code. That was 09 and 2 jobs ago or so. Maybe I can find it.

[jlw™]

So, that 0.250 radius part on the facebook page was done with mcam then?

[Cory M. Pio]

So, that 0.250 radius part on the facebook page was done with mcam then?

No, that was dennis part

 

still can't get this machine to run. I have 9 pallets of half done parts what a pain.

[jlw™]

turn it off and run it then. I've done that a lot. Are you using mcam or nx?

[Cory M. Pio]

Mastercam... 

[Sticky]

I don't have your control or any experience with it. I do have experience with multi pallet Matsuuras and this:

G65 P9301 B1. M1.

Is a regular program # for tool breakage detection for Matsuura. Usually you specify the tolerance on that line. Unfortunately I am away from the shop and my manuals for a week, so I can't look it up for you.

 

Just to make your situation clear, are you saying that the tool doesn't actually touch off on the sensor, or that it does and the control "thinks" it's broken? The latter is usually a simple tolerance issue, the former could be some more interesting problems.

[Sticky]

IIRC to specify tolerance you use D, and if you want to update the tool length you need to specify the H. What really matter is how 9301 is configured.

 

Try G65 P9301 D.5 (or whatever value you want) M1  Hxxx ( H only if you want to update the tool length)

 

If you kind find the manuals for the machine there should be a TLM one somewhere.

[Cory M. Pio]

I don't have your control or any experience with it. I do have experience with multi pallet Matsuuras and this:

G65 P9301 B1. M1.

Is a regular program # for tool breakage detection for Matsuura. Usually you specify the tolerance on that line. Unfortunately I am away from the shop and my manuals for a week, so I can't look it up for you.

 

Just to make your situation clear, are you saying that the tool doesn't actually touch off on the sensor, or that it does and the control "thinks" it's broken? The latter is usually a simple tolerance issue, the former could be some more interesting problems.

To be clear, the tool will approach from the z home slowly and touch off than it will put it away tool broken T0M6. It changes pallet and runs next part until it gets to the broken tool pre-call. Thats when the machine will stop and alarm out TOOL MANAGEMENT: NO TOOL IN GROUP yada yada

[Cory M. Pio]

IIRC to specify tolerance you use D, and if you want to update the tool length you need to specify the H. What really matter is how 9301 is configured.

 

Try G65 P9301 D.5 (or whatever value you want) M1  Hxxx ( H only if you want to update the tool length)

 

If you kind find the manuals for the machine there should be a TLM one somewhere.

Thank you looking for the manuals now!

[Sticky]

To be clear, the tool will approach from the z home slowly and touch off than it will put it away tool broken T0M6. It changes pallet and runs next part until it gets to the broken tool pre-call. Thats when the machine will stop and alarm out TOOL MANAGEMENT: NO TOOL IN GROUP yada yada

 

Ok, this sounds like a simple tolerance issue. Add D.5 to your G65 P9301 line, to test. After confirming it works select a more suitable D value for the type of tool you are using.

[Cory M. Pio]

Ok, this sounds like a simple tolerance issue. Add D.5 to your G65 P9301 line, to test. After confirming it works select a more suitable D value for the type of tool you are using.

So i looked at the manual and it told me YN_523 is the standard tolerance for tool breakage and that was set to 0.6 mm.

 

I opened it up to 3.0mm, the maximum value just to see if i can get it to run for say a week through the night without the problem happening.

 

This is a bandaid, but i'm not sure what could truely be causing this problem

[Guest]

Cory, Shoot me a PM.

[Cory M. Pio]

Cory, Shoot me a PM.

You got mail.

[Cory M. Pio]

She ran all day. (Sigh)

 

Lets see about tonight.

 

Ha just aws I was about to leave she false positives again. LOL 

[Guest]

Hopefully we can get you squared away in short order.

[Cory M. Pio]

Hopefully we can get you squared away in short order.

 

I think we are going to give Renishaw a call today to test their new tool probe they sent out. Nothing changed in our tool detection MACRO. Our main program is setup correctly per the information you kindly sent me. I guess it wouldn't be too stanage to get a detective probe from Renishaw being as they are rebuilt?

[generaldisarray]

Cant you perform a repeatability test on your setter to determine if it is at fault?