False tool break detection

[Grievous]

True. But I've seen Siemens running for 10 years on complex 4 channel machines (WFL), two channels for cutting, and two for the tool changer mechanism. Not a single issue. That's a lot if you ask me.

 

The amount of possibilities in a Siemens control, in the user level, just smokes the most modern Fanuc control out there. A 2003 Sinumerik 840d control has more functionality and programming flexibility than the most modern Fanuc these days.

 

So if you ask me how many hours of programming could be reduced or how many cool resources a Fanuc control was unable to deliver to a regular user in 10 years, I would not trade for a MTBF rate I'd not even be alive to witness.

 

Sinumerik 840d sl is by far the most powerful control out there. Fanuc can do a lot too, but certain stuff that are piece of cake in Sinumerik is a ladder or OEM macro in Fanuc.

 

If it was just a small difference, I'd not even bother to mention, but there's a reason the most complex multitasking machines go with Sinumerik.

+1

Sinumerik is a different animal. If a manufacturer configure his machine well, with all what Sinumerik can do, it blows out any controller out there in any application. Fanuc is reliable mostly cuz  ..let's say..his "simplicity" and from here is easier to handle by a manufacturer. But is growing,.. and the more will grow, the more difficult to handle will be.

[MIL-TFP-41]

No, the issue is that Matsuura uses Yaskawa drives, motors etc while using the Siemens control, it is a integration issue. When you call Siemens tech support and they hear Matsuura they are not going to want to help. If you call them for tech support for Siemens components on another brand that is pure Siemens (control, motors, drives etc) it is not a problem.

 

The issue is that Siemens wants to blame issues on Yaskawa, and Yaskawa wants to blame the issues on Siemens, and Matsuura doesn't have a good understanding of the machines that were built this way.

 

 

This is what I realized the hard way. I have 4 of those fvcking 840Di's on Matsuura's. When they are working, they are great. When you have a problem, you are up sh!t creek. Yaskawa won't even consider touching them, ZERO support there. (Legally I am not sure they can touch them if they wanted to) Then you talk to some guy at Siemens (for whatever reason I always get the same guy, and he is a d0uche) and since it is a hybrid control, there is zero tribal knowledge on these things. Biggest thing I see is that if you do have a drive go out, you better pray Siemens has one on the shelf, otherwise the Yaskawa drive gets shipped back to Germany to be rebuilt. These things (Yaskawa components) were only produced for a limited amount of years, not much spare inventory around. The "core charge" for a exchanged drive reflects this, I have seen parts cost in the neighborhood of $20,000 and you get $18,000 back when they receive the defective part.

[Cory M. Pio]

No, I don't think the Look Ahead settings are an issue with your problem, since the failure is intermittent and not consistent. Just something to be aware of in general.

 

But I've also seen weird things with the look ahead buffers holding different information, based on what has previously ran.

 

Say for example, that you've activated a 600 block look ahead. There could be a situation where the buffer is being overran, and that interacts with the machine Macros in strange ways.

 

Again, this probably has nothing to do with your specific issue, but these are things to be aware of to help you troubleshoot Macro issues in general.

 

I've had issues with Block Look ahead cause the "Probe On" Macro to not "see" the results of running that Probe On Macro, because Look Ahead was enabled, but the buffer was basically "empty", and so the Control unit would jump way ahead in the Macro program commands, and the machine would "read" future values too early. But run the same program after executing some High Speed Machining, and now the buffer memory is full of "motion" commands, and now the Probe On Macro executes properly, at least it appears to.

 

Many of the Probe companies like Renishaw have taken these issues into account, and build in capabilities to "save" the current machine modes that are active, disable the active stuff, and then restore those states at the end of the Macro using logic.

 

I think the place where I see these issues most often is when a MTB has built the Macros with the intention that a machinist or setup person will run the measuring cycle in MDI, and now the Programmer is trying to add the Probing cycle output to the NC Program. This is usually not the case with Broken Tool Detection, but you did mention that the new Macro that you received was formatted with some significant differences. Just something to consider. 

 

Colin, 

 

Thank you as always. I recognized your thought as such from the original post.

 

I will keep this is mind for future troubleshooting for sure. 

[Sticky]

This is what I realized the hard way. I have 4 of those fvcking 840Di's on Matsuura's. When they are working, they are great. When you have a problem, you are up sh!t creek. Yaskawa won't even consider touching them, ZERO support there. (Legally I am not sure they can touch them if they wanted to) Then you talk to some guy at Siemens (for whatever reason I always get the same guy, and he is a d0uche) and since it is a hybrid control, there is zero tribal knowledge on these things. Biggest thing I see is that if you do have a drive go out, you better pray Siemens has one on the shelf, otherwise the Yaskawa drive gets shipped back to Germany to be rebuilt. These things (Yaskawa components) were only produced for a limited amount of years, not much spare inventory around. The "core charge" for a exchanged drive reflects this, I have seen parts cost in the neighborhood of $20,000 and you get $18,000 back when they receive the defective part.

 

Pretty aggravating when you can still get parts and service for your i80 huh?

[MIL-TFP-41]

Pretty aggravating when you can still get parts and service for your i80 huh?

 

Defiantly. We have a few I-80's & J-300's. The things are still supported (can get parts thru Yaskawa) and pretty much bullet proof. The only things I can recall changing on those is the keyboard membrane and the monitors.

[jeff]

Everytime the Matsuura tech comes out the bill is 5Gs.

 

 

 

Holy crap! Is he coming from another continent or something?

[Cory M. Pio]

Holy crap! Is he coming from another continent or something?

Chicago i guess... Nicks the man though.  he probably built the thing in Japan with a big "going to the USA sticker". knowing damn well he would have  work for the next decade servicing it.

[Cory M. Pio]

MATSUURA USA  CAME THROUGH WITH A NEW MACRO...Machine has been running flawlessly for a couple of days.