New workstation suggestions

[mmoya]

I'm putting together a proposal to buy two new workstations at work. I previously pitched a budget of $5000 per machine which gives plenty of room for selecting the best hardware.

Our IT guy is on call and is only around a couple days a month, so I'm looking at pre-built options rather than a custom build.

 

I found a place that modifies and optimizes Dell machines specifically for Mastercam, and this is their most powerful machine: http://mysolidbox.com/mastercam/product/carbide-desktop-level-2

 

Looking at the specs it seems overpriced for what it is. I've been browsing around on boxx.com and their sales team suggested the APEXX 2 2403 which comes out to about the same price with similar hardware, with the only main difference being the processor..

 

I know that higher clock speeds and more cores are better, but I don't have any idea beyond that.

 

So my question is this: What kind of processor should I be looking at? How many cores? What clock speed? Cache size? Also what graphics card would be a good choice?

Are there other places I should look at besides BOXX?

 

 

We use every kind of toolpath there is (we do a lot of one-off work) and will be getting into the 5-axis arena soon, these machines will need to be able to pull their own weight for the next 5 years as well.

 

Sorry if I sound like a noob, I haven't bought a computer in like 5 years

[jeff]

BoXX computers are WAY overpriced. I would never recommend them for that reason alone.

 

As for what cpu you need, that depends on the type of work you do,how big and complex your files are. If they are super complex and big, then you want a Xeon.

But not the typical Xeon because the i7 6700k and 7700k are really powerful and will do most things you need. So in order to beat the i7, you need to spend at least $1,500-$2,000 on the cpu alone.

Ram = 32gb,64gb or even more if you desire. Ram isn't that expensive nowadays, you can get 64gb of blazing fast ram for $500 or less.

Video card = I have the GTX 980,will be stepping up to the GTX1080 soon,but if you do a lot of modeling you should look at a good Quadro card.

Of course you want an SSD, and I recommend the Samsung 850 EVO.

Power Supply = This is the most important piece, never skimp on a psu. Get a gold certified 700W or higher.

 

A lot of people won't build their own based on the fact that they want/need a 3 year warranty, but you will save a lot of money if you can build one yourself, and it's not rocket science,it just takes some research to know what to do.

 

an i7 7700k with a GTX1080 will do everything you need,but if your files are massive, it might be a little slow, in that case you want a big $ Xeon and a good Quadro.

[Goldorak]

i took specs from solidbox ans sent them to a little computer store next to our shop 

 

they quote me a custom build with the same specs or better for 2500$ less ..... 

[mmoya]

BOXX aren't cheap, but for 4 grand, I can configure a fairly powerful machine with liquid cooling all ready to go out of the box and like you said, with a warranty.

 

I haven't seen any massive complex files yet, they're typically fairly small and straightforward parts. I haven't seen any mcam files more than maybe 75mb, but that doesn't mean I never will.... Right now I'm programming on what is basically a word processing machine with a Quadro K2200. It's infuriating.

From what you're saying I would guess we probably wouldn't need a $2,000 Xeon. Is there some kind of threshold though? Like don't buy anything lower than "i7 XXXX"?

RAM is easy, so is PSU. But for the graphics card, we need to be able to open and navigate large Solidworks assemblies. Again, is there some threshold for that? All the engineers machines run  Quadro cards.

 

As far as building vs buying, I personally don't care, but another question then would be what mobo to buy? I'm sure that has a whole slew of specs to figure out in order to support the CPU, graphics card, etc as well..

 

BoXX computers are WAY overpriced. I would never recommend them for that reason alone.

 

As for what cpu you need, that depends on the type of work you do,how big and complex your files are. If they are super complex and big, then you want a Xeon.

But not the typical Xeon because the i7 6700k and 7700k are really powerful and will do most things you need. So in order to beat the i7, you need to spend at least $1,500-$2,000 on the cpu alone.

Ram = 32gb,64gb or even more if you desire. Ram isn't that expensive nowadays, you can get 64gb of blazing fast ram for $500 or less.

Video card = I have the GTX 980,will be stepping up to the GTX1080 soon,but if you do a lot of modeling you should look at a good Quadro card.

Of course you want an SSD, and I recommend the Samsung 850 EVO.

Power Supply = This is the most important piece, never skimp on a psu. Get a gold certified 700W or higher.

 

A lot of people won't build their own based on the fact that they want/need a 3 year warranty, but you will save a lot of money if you can build one yourself, and it's not rocket science,it just takes some research to know what to do.

 

an i7 7700k with a GTX1080 will do everything you need,but if your files are massive, it might be a little slow, in that case you want a big $ Xeon and a good Quadro.

[Goldorak]

if you run solidworks, you definitively need a Quadro card, the gamers card simply can not handle assemblies with more than 200 parts (including bolts and nuts) 

[gcode]

 

 

BoXX computers are WAY overpriced

 

way over priced is a relative term

Yes.. you can buy the components , build your own and save 30 to 40%

if you know how and if you have the time

 

My employer pays me to program not tinker with computers

If a $3 million machine is down cause I'm saving $1k on a computer we're not saving money.

 

We've got 5 Boxx machines here, the oldest is 3 years old now.. and we have had zero issues with any of them.

At one point I thought I had a bad USB port and their Customer Service was all over it.

To my embarrassment, it turned out to be a bad USB cable.

I can't recommend them highly enough.

 

If you're serious about buying one, PM  me

I may be able to get you a discount.

[mmoya]

What you think about this, with the exception of the video card:

 

Intel Professional Series Configurator :

Intel Core i7 7700K 4.2Ghz 8MB Cache Quad-Core

Noctura NH-D15 SSO2 D-Type Premium CPU Cooler,

ASUS Prime Z270-A (Intel Z270, HDMI, 3xPCI-E, 7xSATA, 4xDDR4)

32GB (8GBx4) PC4 17000 DDR4 2133Mhz Memory Lifetime Warranty (Major Brand)

500GB SAMSUNG 960 EVO Series MZ-V6E500BW PCIe M.2

1TB Western Digital Black 7200RPM 64MB Cache SATA3 6Gbps

8GB GeForce GTX 1080 GDDR5X PCI-E DVI/HDMI/DP (Major Brand)

Microsoft Windows 10 Professional 64bit (Includes DVD + COA)

750watt Corsair RM750x Modular 80 PLUS GOLD CERTIFIED |

 

$2476 Built

[jeff]

way over priced is a relative term

 

That is very true.

Most shops don't have a $3m machine 

[jeff]

What you think about this, with the exception of the video card:

 

Intel Professional Series Configurator :

Intel Core i7 7700K 4.2Ghz 8MB Cache Quad-Core

Noctura NH-D15 SSO2 D-Type Premium CPU Cooler,

ASUS Prime Z270-A (Intel Z270, HDMI, 3xPCI-E, 7xSATA, 4xDDR4)

32GB (8GBx4) PC4 17000 DDR4 2133Mhz Memory Lifetime Warranty (Major Brand)

500GB SAMSUNG 960 EVO Series MZ-V6E500BW PCIe M.2

1TB Western Digital Black 7200RPM 64MB Cache SATA3 6Gbps

8GB GeForce GTX 1080 GDDR5X PCI-E DVI/HDMI/DP (Major Brand)

Microsoft Windows 10 Professional 64bit (Includes DVD + COA)

750watt Corsair RM750x Modular 80 PLUS GOLD CERTIFIED |

 

$2476 Built

 

I would go for faster RAM, maybe look into 3000Mhz or higher.Other than that, I think that computer will do just fine.

 

And as Goldorak said, if you're running files in Solidworks with a lot of components, then you want a Quadro instead of a GTX card.

BUT you could always get the GTX1080 and upgrade to a Quadro later on if it can't handle it. That 1080 is an absolute beast and it will be at least 1/2 the cost of a good Quadro so that's your call.

Now you just need 2 27" 4K IPS monitors to complete it  

 

 

EDIT:

Just know that the M.2 drive won't make things faster for you, and they tend to run hot.

Where you will notice the speed of the M.2 drive is with data transfer.  If it's NVME

[mmoya]

way over priced is a relative term

Yes.. you can buy the components , build your own and save 30 to 40%

if you know how and if you have the time

 

My employer pays me to program not tinker with computers

If a $3 million machine is down cause I'm saving $1k on a computer we're not saving money.

 

We've got 5 Boxx machines here, the oldest is 3 years old now.. and we have had zero issues with any of them.

At one point I thought I had a bad USB port and their Customer Service was all over it.

To my embarrassment, it turned out to be a bad USB cable.

I can't recommend them highly enough.

 

If you're serious about buying one, PM  me

I may be able to get you a discount.

 

Excellent point. That's why I want something that just WORKS

 

That is very true.

Most shops don't have a $3m machine 

 

If your shop has $500k worth of equipment, a $5k BOXX is 1% of that.

[mmoya]

I would go for faster RAM, maybe look into 3000Mhz or higher.Other than that, I think that computer will do just fine.

 

And as Goldorak said, if you're running files in Solidworks with a lot of components, then you want a Quadro instead of a GTX card.

BUT you could always get the GTX1080 and upgrade to a Quadro later on if it can't handle it. That 1080 is an absolute beast and it will be at least 1/2 the cost of a good Quadro so that's your call.

Now you just need 2 27" 4K IPS monitors to complete it  

 

 

EDIT:

Just know that the M.2 drive won't make things faster for you, and they tend to run hot.

Where you will notice the speed of the M.2 drive is with data transfer.  If it's NVME

 Thanks for the tips. The SSD would just be for the OS, I could go way smaller than that but I was just trying to compare it to the BOXX.

 

27 inches! LOL I might have to pick up some CRT's from goodwill to stay in budget

[jeff]

 Thanks for the tips. The SSD would just be for the OS, I could go way smaller than that but I was just trying to compare it to the BOXX.

 

27 inches! LOL I might have to pick up some CRT's from goodwill to stay in budget

lol

If you want just normal monitors, I have 2 of these here at work and they are a steal for the price!

https://www.amazon.com/BenQ-GL2760H-27-inch-LED-lit-Monitor/dp/B00IZBIMLK

[gcode]

Excellent point. That's why I want something that just WORKS

 

 

If your shop has $500k worth of equipment, a $5k BOXX is 1% of that.

and it doesn't take too many problems or much downtime before

the $$$$ you saved on "do it yourself" becomes the money you're losing because of "do it yourself"

[g huns]

Been buying from these guys for 15 years. @Xi

 

Don't know if they still do, but they used to build workstations for Pixar. Made the $5k workstations I was buying look like a Best Buy Acer.

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

 Thanks for the tips. The SSD would just be for the OS, I could go way smaller than that but I was just trying to compare it to the BOXX.

 

27 inches! LOL I might have to pick up some CRT's from goodwill to stay in budget

 

At this point in time I wouldn't even consider running a mechanical hard drive unless maybe I had several terabytes to store.  A 2TB SSD is about $550 now, and should be much faster and more reliable than a HDD. 

[jeff]

and it doesn't take too many problems or much downtime before

the $$$$ you saved on "do it yourself" becomes the money you're losing because of "do it yourself"

Come on now, be fair. It's not like building a pc is hard. You make it sound like Boxx is the only way to go for warranty and security and building your own will result in downtime.

 

Plenty of sites out there that offer pc's made-to-order and for thousands less than Boxx offers and that's why I refuse to ever recommend them to anyone.

I can see being overpriced, you have to in order to make money, but these guys aren't just overpriced, it's borderline criminal the prices they have.

 

OP: Check out other sites such as Cyberpowerpc.com  You can build the one with your same specs above for around $2200.

[?Mark]

I got me a BOXX APEXX 3402 for about $5600.00 and never looked back.

It rocks, and if something gets slow or sluggish, I know it's NOT because of the PC 

[jeff]

Ok here's an example of how overpriced they are:

i7 7700k

GTX1080 ---what brand??

32GB of..... ack 2400Mhz RAM--what brand??

480GB ssd--what brand??

Windows 10 Pro

What Motherboard??? ---they don't say

They are charging $589.00 for 24GB of this cheap,slow ram! Are you effing kidding me? 4gb of DDR4 2400Mhz is $25.00! Which makes 24GB of that = $150.00

 

 

They will bend you over and charge you $3,727 for that configuration!!!

Buy the parts separate and spend less than $2,100 on Newegg. With faster ram or look elsewhere because they are raping you.

There is nothing you can say that justifies spending $1,600 more on a $2,100 computer that makes sense. Other than you have money to burn.

[gcode]

In my system, the hard drives are Intel

The motherboard is an Asus Gryphon Z97

I don't know who built the video card or the ram.

I've never had the case open

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

Here it is on pcpartpicker with same, equivalent, or slightly improved parts for $2123.70:

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/TK4mQV

[Müřlıń®]

Here it is on pcpartpicker with same, equivalent, or slightly improved parts for $2123.70:

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/TK4mQV

+1 on the heat pipe cooler...I would never use water cooled in my workstation.

 

Course I never overclocked either...but that is another debate entirely....   

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

That was the same cooler he specified. I personally would go with the Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo for 1/3 the price; all the research I did about a year ago put it on the top for air coolers regardless of price.  I did upgrade the Windows 10 to Windows 7 however, for only $10 more.

[kostiuk]

Just because you spend more money doesn't mean you get a better PC. All the different manufacturers are using the same components and just stuffing them into their box. As long as you can specify good name brand parts in the PC you are fine. Cyberpower is my choice, they are crazy cheap and you can customize the crap out of them and they use same quality of components that everyone else is using. Check out their website. They will overclock them right out of the gate for you too.

Kevin K.

[mmoya]

Here it is on pcpartpicker with same, equivalent, or slightly improved parts for $2123.70:

 

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/TK4mQV

 

Good find. An almost identical build from ecollegepc.com (only difference is RAM) is$2559 built w/ parts & labor warranty, although I don't know anything about their customer service..

[jeff]

Just because you spend more money doesn't mean you get a better PC. All the different manufacturers are using the same components and just stuffing them into their box. As long as you can specify good name brand parts in the PC you are fine. Cyberpower is my choice, they are crazy cheap and you can customize the crap out of them and they use same quality of components that everyone else is using. Check out their website. They will overclock them right out of the gate for you too.

Kevin K.

Yep, we've bought about a dozen of their computers over the last 10 years.

Zero issues!

They used to build workstations and offer the Quadro cards but it looks like they stopped doing that.