Fusion 360 what are its failings ?

[gary adams]

A machinist that works for us is singing the praises of fusion 360, some free ware he has got from the net. He tells me all it can do, my reply is we have spent 10's of thousands on mastercam and solidworks they must have capabilities that his free stuff doesn't. Can someone help here as I am starting to get sick of listening to him.

Thanks Gary

[M. Anderson]

kind'a old but...

 

http://www.emastercam.com/board/topic/89430-autodesk-fusion-360/?hl=fusion

 

go down and read Collin's replys

[Colin Gilchrist]

I think it is good for Hobby use, but I'd be really careful about thinking you can run a shop with it. Maybe if you had a line of 3X Mills. If you're doing any kind of 4X work, especially Horizontal, don't waste your time. Even though Mastercam Horizontal machining leaves a lot to be desired, it is still light years ahead of Fusion 360.

 

Autodesk also has several different "competing" products now for CAM. What I mean by this is they are plugging in HSMWorks to Inventor, or Solidworks. They also own Delcam, and if you've seen what they are doing there, they are basically discontinuing development of Powermill. I think they will only offer "cloud" based licenses, no more perpetual licensing. Eventually they will simply kill Powermill, and force those users into Fusion 360. (I think that is their plan, but have no inside knowledge of the inner workings of Autodesk. Call it a hunch.)

 

Fusion 360 will only be cloud based. So your data has to travel to Autodesk servers at some point. You can use it "offline", but it will eventually want to "sync" with the home base at some point. I could see data management being a big deal for many shops, especially Military and Aerospace. You can bet the Chinese or Russians will have already figured out how to break into those vaults and plunder everything.

 

Plus, what happens when they jack up the price? Now your cheap license will cost more, as they start rolling out new functions and features. All of a sudden, you may go from $25 per license, per month, to $250. What's stopping them, once you've bought into their platform, paid for posts, and training? Nothing. They've got you by the gonads. Not to say they won't be offering a good "service", but you no longer have perpetual license to their product. That bill will come every year, or every month, and they can shut you down if you don't pay.

 

Here are the reasons I would stick with Mastercam, if it were my money to spend, and my business to run:

 

• Post Processor support. There are plenty of off-the-shelf posts, and post development resources available. Even for very complex machines, and you can do a ton of customization to fit your shop's needs. It costs a good bit of money, but you (generally) get what you pay for.

 

• Training. I believe that Mastercam has arguably the best training and educational resources in the CAM market today. There are lots of videos, online training, books, and classes available, for all kinds of subjects.

 

• Support - Having local experts and resources like training or seminars is a great advantage.

 

• Available Programmers (Mastercam Eco-system) - I see tons of people recruiting for, or advertising their Mastercam Skills. Lots of high schools and colleges offer courses. There is a much larger pool of potential talent with Mastercam. I bet if you added up all the Mastercam Programmers on the planet, they would equal the total number of CAM Programmers from all the other CAM Packages combined.

 

• Made in the USA. If you run a shop in America or Canada, and you have watched any of the Trade issues that are on Trump's agenda, this should concern you. What if Trump signs his name tomorrow, and "poof", 50% tariff on your German or French CAM package?

 

• CNC Software is Family owned. They do not have shareholders to answer to that only care about growth and profit. Above all; they genuinely care about their customers. That matters to me. It might not to you.

 

I don't know how much longer the "Local Reseller" model of distribution will last, but in general, most Resellers do a great job of supporting their customers. I have heard of issues with some of them, but that is the rare exception, not the rule. (Sorry CNC, I'm not trying to offend, but it's true that some users have problems, or feel like they don't get good support. I still love you guys though. *ducks*) With more and more services and business being run online, and the availability of online training and support, having a "physical presence" will be less and less critical as time marches on.

 

I do know that "not all Resellers are created equal". There is a huge difference between a Reseller that has a large staff of people, and the small Resellers, who might not have as much product knowledge. Of course, there are also "problem customers", who would complain if the software were free, and the Reseller stopped by, bought them lunch, and washed their car. When I worked for Cimtech in Washington State, I dealt with a few of those.

 

The most important thing now is finding the people with the right knowledge and skills to support your shop's needs. I am noticing a push towards "integration" of services. You need people that know; the machines, the control capabilities, post processors, offline simulation, material handling (robot programming), and inspection/gauging processes. Data management also comes to mind. I've been in shops that integrate Mastercam, Tool Data Management, Offline Tool Presetting, On Machine Inspection and Reporting, and Material Handling. That is a lot of systems that need to work together, and someone has to not only set that up, but train your people how to use all the technology so that it works together. Who do you call when there is a problem? I've seen some projects go south because you've got the Post Processor Vendor, the Machine Tool Builder, and the shop's Employee's all pointing the finger at each other. The project becomes a hot potato. Nobody wants to touch it, or be ultimately responsible for the success/failure of the project.

 

I watched a Post Processor vendor once take over 8 months to "build a Post", that cost $25,000, and it never, ever worked. Not even a little bit. The contract ultimately got cancelled, because the vendor has sub-contracted out the work overseas without telling anyone. They didn't have the skills to do the work! The customer got their money back, but lost close to a year in the process. A YEAR!!! Who pays for the shop's lost productivity? That is an expensive lesson to learn. Just to be clear, that wasn't a Mastercam Post Processor, or Reseller, or even Masteram CAM Software involved...

 

I've probably said too much, but ultimately I'm still a Mastercam fan-boy, and those are some of the reasons. I've made a lot of money over my lifetime with Mastercam. I hope I've also contributed in some small way to the success of such a great product.

 

-Colin

[gary adams]

Thanks guys for taking the time to reply. We are 10 plus years down the mastercam track, so unless a competing product appears with major efficiency gains across a wide area, the jumping ship option is not an option. Also I have found using mastercam for solidworks over the last 14 months quite beneficial and well worth the effort of learning it. 

thanks again

Gary

[Watcher]

I find the idea of killing Powermill, a high end CAM system, so stupid that it can only come from ADSK management.

 

But it is so stupid I refuse to believe they are that stupid.

[Newbeeee™]

But it is so stupid I refuse to believe they are that stupid.

Give them more credit Daniel.

They can be THAT stupid...

[Newbeeee™]

 

...They've got you by the gonads.

Hahaha - Colin said Gonads

[#Rekd™]

I think Autodesk is reaping the rewards of most younger people having experience with their software. I have 3 children in high school and they are taught on Autodesk products. Autodesk provides free software to all schools (grade schools, high schools, colleges and universities) and I think this has helped them big time. 

 

Siemens is now following the Autodesk model and going aggressively into the high schools.

 

As for Fusion 360 I think Colin pretty accurately described it.

[Newbeeee™]

I think Autodesk is reaping the rewards of most younger people having experience with their software. I have 3 children in high school and they are taught on Autodesk products. Autodesk provides free software to all schools (grade schools, high schools, colleges and universities) and I think this has helped them big time. 

 

Siemens is now following the Autodesk model and going aggressively into the high schools.

 

As for Fusion 360 I think Colin pretty accurately described it.

I remember having a copy of autocad LT95 at home (wasn't dongled) to learn it.

Paid dividends for me.

And as for Fusion 360 - I guess they could now port in some of the Delcam product and release it as Fusion 3600 for 4axis+?

[So not a Guru]

I find the idea of killing Powermill, a high end CAM system, so stupid that it can only come from ADSK management.

 

But it is so stupid I refuse to believe they are that stupid.

Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.

 

Robert A. Heinlein

[Newbeeee™]

Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.

 

Robert A. Heinlein

Was he in Marketing?