Probing for process control

[MetalSlinger5]

Is the productivity plus option for X9 able to probe on the machine for process control and print out a report for final on the machine inspection of critical features?

What interface does the CNC use to communicate with my computer to generate reports?

We are considering purchasing the add on.

 

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

It can write results with DPRNT, either to a file on your machine's "file server" or flash card, or through a serial connection to an external computer.

[crazy^millman]

You want to look at Verisurf to make inspection reports. Renishaw is limited in what is going to give you IMHO.

[Tim Johnson]

Does Verisurf work with Renishaw created data?

[crazy^millman]

5 hours ago, Tim Johnson said:

Does Verisurf work with Renishaw created data?

I would use Renishaw to drive the probe and collect points. Then I would take those collected points back into Verisurf and use it to give me the quality aspect I am looking for from the data collected. Verisurf can drive a machine tool now to probe parts. Why they aren't marketing it yet I am not sure, but there is a lot under the hood of Verisurf and had I gotten my way Renishaw would have never been the core product for probing in Mastercam Verisurf would be.

[Grievous]

On what machines/controller you want to do that?

[MetalSlinger5]

Haas VF-11 with the next gen control

[Colin Gilchrist]

On 5/11/2017 at 4:15 PM, MetalSlinger5 said:

Is the productivity plus option for X9 able to probe on the machine for process control and print out a report for final on the machine inspection of critical features?

What interface does the CNC use to communicate with my computer to generate reports?

We are considering purchasing the add on.

 

Yes, the Renishaw Productivity Plus add on will give you both Process Control (adjusting Work Offsets, and adjusting length and radius offsets), and will also generate an Inspection Report.

[Tim Johnson]

3 hours ago, Colin Gilchrist said:

Yes, the Renishaw Productivity Plus add on will give you both Process Control (adjusting Work Offsets, and adjusting length and radius offsets), and will also generate an Inspection Report.

When I went to the Productivity seminar (X9 Rollout) the instructor said it would report distant and position but that was about it. I didn't see a distance callout in that class. I have written simple inspection into my post but as of right now I can't run more than one part per pallet because my variable offsets (four per part) is getting stepped on. I'm thinking of trying to put my probing results in less areas, DPRNT, erase and on to the next feature but flatness, parallelism and perpendicular specs adds up to a lot of points. It just might be better to buy good probing software but unless Productivity Plus has vastly improved from what I saw then It's not good enough. I'll dig into Verisurf to see what I can find.

[YoDoug®]

We use the standalone version of Productivity+ as we sell and support it from our office. The key to getting more data out of Productivity+ is using the constructed features. With those you can get distances and angles between any measured features then print the results. You can get distances and angles between holes, find intersections of lines, etc. The constructed features allow you to make measurements that more closely resemble the tolerances of your print rather than just measuring everything from the WCS. I have even used it successfully for 3D measurements of surfaces. The one thing it won't do though is align it's measurements to the datums of the part. They are still relative to the machine axis' of travel so the results from a CMM may differ slightly. In a five axis machine you can rotate the part to the measured datums, but not so much in less of a machine. I like that I can make an inspection routine for first part checking in the machine in minutes and know a part is good before it gets pulled out. Likewise I can make quick simple in-process routines to make sure that consecutive parts are run to size. 

[MetalSlinger5]

On ‎5‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 6:41 PM, YoDoug® said:

We use the standalone version of Productivity+ as we sell and support it from our office. The key to getting more data out of Productivity+ is using the constructed features. With those you can get distances and angles between any measured features then print the results. You can get distances and angles between holes, find intersections of lines, etc. The constructed features allow you to make measurements that more closely resemble the tolerances of your print rather than just measuring everything from the WCS. I have even used it successfully for 3D measurements of surfaces. The one thing it won't do though is align it's measurements to the datums of the part. They are still relative to the machine axis' of travel so the results from a CMM may differ slightly. In a five axis machine you can rotate the part to the measured datums, but not so much in less of a machine. I like that I can make an inspection routine for first part checking in the machine in minutes and know a part is good before it gets pulled out. Likewise I can make quick simple in-process routines to make sure that consecutive parts are run to size. 

This is exactly what I am trying to do. That being said I am also required to produce a detailed inspection report, verifying inspection criteria, due to a majority of out parts can not be inspected off the machine. Can you produce hard copies of the inspection report this way?

[crazy^millman]

On 5/15/2017 at 6:41 PM, YoDoug® said:

We use the standalone version of Productivity+ as we sell and support it from our office. The key to getting more data out of Productivity+ is using the constructed features. With those you can get distances and angles between any measured features then print the results. You can get distances and angles between holes, find intersections of lines, etc. The constructed features allow you to make measurements that more closely resemble the tolerances of your print rather than just measuring everything from the WCS. I have even used it successfully for 3D measurements of surfaces. The one thing it won't do though is align it's measurements to the datums of the part. They are still relative to the machine axis' of travel so the results from a CMM may differ slightly. In a five axis machine you can rotate the part to the measured datums, but not so much in less of a machine. I like that I can make an inspection routine for first part checking in the machine in minutes and know a part is good before it gets pulled out. Likewise I can make quick simple in-process routines to make sure that consecutive parts are run to size. 

That was my point Doug, You are not using the product that ships with Mastercam. For a customer who uses Mastercam to get the same abilities they must use a different product being sold by Renishaw. That is and has been their end game from the very beginning. They are not concerned with making the CAM product function they same way as their won. Why would they hurt their own sales making it function the same way? Verisurf is a Mastercam only product and more than capable of doing what is needed. The issue is getting everyone to get on the same page IMHO. Of course what do I know? I just sit back and watch this same thing unfold year after year with no real progress for the industry as a whole. Huge claims about it, but when the rubber meets the road where someone some go in one system and do what they need for cradle to grave?

When that company finally gets it and does it they will crush everyone else in the industry. None of the High Ends care to do it and none of the Mediums can get the knowledge needed under one roof so it will be the same thing it has been for the last 20 years. To much money to be made by all the players keeping it separate and difficult. Weird how other countries roll the quality into the Manufacturing process because it has been so ingrained into it, but in the US it seems to be treated as a Alien from another planet concept to do. Some companies are doing it more and more, but they still IMHO represent a small majority. 

Back to the Original Question:

On 5/11/2017 at 1:15 PM, MetalSlinger5 said:

Is the productivity plus option for X9 able to probe on the machine for process control and print out a report for final on the machine inspection of critical features?

What interface does the CNC use to communicate with my computer to generate reports?

We are considering purchasing the add on.

 

No the Add on for Mastercam will not to the best of my knowledge. If you want to get this ability and stay in Mastercam look to Verisurf. If you want external abilities then yes you will need to purchase the stand alone option from Renishaw.

My comments are not directly at anyone personally and are just general observations so hopefully no one takes them personally. Have a good day.

[YoDoug®]

19 hours ago, C^Millman said:

That was my point Doug, You are not using the product that ships with Mastercam. For a customer who uses Mastercam to get the same abilities they must use a different product being sold by Renishaw. That is and has been their end game from the very beginning. They are not concerned with making the CAM product function they same way as their won. Why would they hurt their own sales making it function the same way? Verisurf is a Mastercam only product and more than capable of doing what is needed. The issue is getting everyone to get on the same page IMHO. Of course what do I know? I just sit back and watch this same thing unfold year after year with no real progress for the industry as a whole. Huge claims about it, but when the rubber meets the road where someone some go in one system and do what they need for cradle to grave?

When that company finally gets it and does it they will crush everyone else in the industry. None of the High Ends care to do it and none of the Mediums can get the knowledge needed under one roof so it will be the same thing it has been for the last 20 years. To much money to be made by all the players keeping it separate and difficult. Weird how other countries roll the quality into the Manufacturing process because it has been so ingrained into it, but in the US it seems to be treated as a Alien from another planet concept to do. Some companies are doing it more and more, but they still IMHO represent a small majority. 

 

Ron, I have never used the Productivity+ inside of Mastercam because I could never get any help from either Mastercam or Renishaw in getting the post set up. They both kept telling me that it was the others responsibility. However, from what I can see in the menus xxxx has the same capabilities for constructed features and reporting that the standalone version does. It will most likely do what the original thread topic here was looking for. 

[Matthew Hajicek - Singularity]

I can attest to that.

[Guest]

I gave our local Mastercam dealer some assistance on the probing side since that is not their normal bailywick. So they have a real good handle on it now and know how to modify the RenMF files so the thing will work... at least on a Matsuura H.Plus-405 PC12 it works. 

So, if you're interested in getting it going, you're probably going to need a Mastercam dealer that kmows how probing works and/or is willing to work with a Machine Tool AE. No matter what, they HAVE to be able to work with the RenMF file otherwise you're wasting your time, you money, and your effort.