BTW Esprit has it's good points. The knowledge base system and the build in verification ROCK!

I am a current Esprit user. IMO MasterCax X2 was a lot better at 5 axis and any solid milling for that matter. One of the things I like to point out about working with 3 ax solids is that mastercam class was one day for generating code from a solid Esprit class is 5 days. Three different times in that class I was able to stump the teacher on things I wanted to do with solids that I used to do in MC. I was not trying to play stump the teacher it just worked out that way. Of course just like Mastercam there is always a work around. Just a lot more of them in Esprit I have used ProE manufacturing, Esprit and MC. I have not used MC in almost 2 year. Give me a complicated 5 axis part with a solid model and told it needed done fast I think I could still do it faster in MC then Esprit.

Oh no you don't you can not change to R value, We have already been over this I,J,K is more accurate. Go switch it back. LOL Hows Bill Doing?

Cost of posts? UG is not like Mastercam in that you do not just go to a three day call and take off. Last time I talked to a UG rep he estimated 6 months before you could rely on good programs in a timely manner. I looked at UG when I made the jump to 5 axis. The training issue was a major factor. Of course I was assuming some programmer turn around. When you look at the work pool in my area its 20-1 Mastercam vs UG. The final straw was I found a teacher out west that was certified in Mastercam and UG. Since he rep’ed both softwares he would not tell me which was better just that they each had its strong points. I worded a question something like this “If I contracted you to do 5 axis programming for me what software would you use.” He paused and then said Mastercam. Higher cost, longer training times, Small work pool and not enough advantage to make someone who is trained in it pick it over Mastercam.

quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Example: Mastercam does not support tool comp in 5 axis moves. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FYI: back about 18 months ago I was working on DMU's the DMU's supports G142. If I understand it right with a G142 there is an IJK value for every feed move. I asked my reseller and this forum if Mastercam supports it and I was told No. Esprit does. I am a post user not a maker so you would know better then me Brett. I just know what my post source told me. That does not change the fact that Esprit is a solids wantabee. When it comes to solids Esprite 2007 = MC8

I know this is an older thread but I am now better trained in Esprit and can say with a fair amount of confidence "Mastercam Rules". Esprit is a nice 2D package but when it comes to handling solids, 3d surfacing and multi axis solids it sucks. In five days of training I must have heard "make a wire frame and machine from that" or you need to "create surfaces to machine that" 20 times. Imagine picking Drive surfaces and Check surfaces and getting only one chance to get it right. You can not edit it. When I asked how to add a check surface I was told I should save the operation to the hard drive delete it in my ops manager call in back in and re-pick all the surfaces. Even the teacher had little idea how many of the 3D operation would react on parts he had not done before. Basic stuff like control planes in an operation can not be changed. At one point I wanted to machine the profile of a part, due to pockets on the sides of the part, the profile only existed on the bottom of the part. When I used the "Bottom edge" to define my profile the system assumed I wanted to machine from the bottom (A180) even though the machine definition had no 4 axis defined and no control plane defined at 180. I asked for the teachers help, 15 minutes later he said “got it” and moved on. He had to convert it to wireframe! The verify in Esprit makes for a nice demo and it works great if you want to use a couple of clamps and maybe a stop but if you do much more then that it blows up. I spent a half an hour setting up a horizontal fixture just to have the software crash to the desk top 90% of the time I verify. No one at Esprit can tell me how much is too much in verify. There is also some really stupid stuff like I used a check surface on a roughing 3D move. The software let me pick check surface but the mill crashed into the check surface. We sent the file in and the reply was. “We don’t support check surfaces in roughing.” Well maybe you should think about graying out buttons that are not supported. Aggggggg. I programmed 5 axis in Mastercam and I can say not being able to change work planes or edit Drive/Check surface combined with unpredictable 3D machining operation would make for a nightmare. When I think of how many times I have gone back and added check surfaces or changed work planes I wonder how long it would have taken to program those parts Esprit. Could you program anything in Esprit: Yes Could you do it as fast as Mastercam? Not me, no way. I understand the Esprit guys think there software is as good but they simple don’t know how easy it could be

I purchased the system back in 2003. For the money it was the easiest way to get started in 5 axis. I not suppost to talk price here. If you compair it to a custom post, Vericut plus building a machine for vericut it was a very resonable price. Also training time is zero. Everything runs in mastercam. The simulator works with a Camaix custom post. I got lucky cause Camaix had a engineer flying to the US for another customer (who paid for the trip). Even tho they are a German based company (which is good for you) their phone and internet support was very good. Since I did everything thru my Mastercam dealer Camaix suppied them with my complete system so they could trouble shoot any issues. They had big no issues with X upgrade. Infact they made a big upgrade in their simulator at the same time. I have no info on X2 as I have changed jobs. If you are trying to run a ver 9 camaix on X it aint going to happen. You should contact them direct they are also maybe the Mastercam dealers in your area.

For me the dealer's training class was Key. If you try to follow the promts and teach yourself it can get confusing. The trainer (Phil) explained what each command was looking for and the best way to input it. He also filled us in on the "un-documented features" that where common in 5axs. It made 5 axis smooth sailing. Best $1500 I ever wote a PO for. BTW, I am not saying books could not do the same, just how I did it.

"For milling and EDM, not so good" Esprit owns the EDM market. It is and has been the number one EDM product in the US. I remember buying a Wire back in 1993/4 time frame and both the Mit and Sodic salesmans told me Esprit was the best out there hands down.

I am currently training is Esprit and I like it more each day. I was amazed to discover how strong Esprit is in 5 axis. Example: Mastercam does not support tool comp in 5 axis moves. Esprit does. I know few machines support this but I thouhgt it was cool esprit has already addressed it. I also hated the fact I had to go around and make "feature" before I programmed, now I am seeing some advangages to it. I am also training in Pro-Manufaturing and I would just like to say what a after thought piece of *%$@ package that is.

FYI: I have overseen some horizontial broachs. Normally I quoted +/-.001. I figured out the ram had about .0005 play and the broach itself was +/-.0005 due to the lengh. The nice part was the brotch throughs a nice burr to indicate its time to replace it long before the +/-.001 is out of tolerance. The concept of a Ram with less then .0001 of play and a broach made better then .0001 and having any allowable wear is a lot to ask of that process. I am not saying it can not be done but it would be tuff with the above stack up.

We have creep feed griders here. Up to 80 hp creepfeed grinders. One job will not pay for a machine like that. Thats why I said get a diamond roll made to the size of the slot. Dress the wheel thru diamond roll so the grind wheel has the slot width in it. You could use any mid size surface grider and hold that tolerance. With the light cuts you are taking you might even skip dress and dress the wheel every other cut. You would have to test that. CNC's are just not designed for 2 tenths. Most machines New hold .0001. the best tools are +/-.0002 and anyone with a vision type presetter knows how much runout new tool holders have. Most coolant tanks are to close to the floor and the collant can be 10 degree differnt from the air temp. Your part can changes size more then .0002 while the coolant is on. The most common place .0002 is help repeatable is a bearing manufacture. Bearing races are gound with a dressed grinding wheel then honed to mirror finish. Does your measuring system pass a gage RR? I would think any less then air gaging or a lazer form analizer would have a tuff time with .0002 across multi operators.

Sure sounds like grinding to me. Get a diamond wheel dresser line up 10-15 of them and cut them in a single pass,,,, OK our equipment is a bit heavy you might have to take 2 passes and dress before each final pass.

Your correct Bruce. My bad. Cutter comp in 5th axis must be a German only thing. At IMTS none of the app guys in the CAM area knew what I was talking about including UG. I have programmed Dynamic and bases on a trion point. I got good parts both ways. Dynamic is a must if you plan on multi parts on a fixture.

Bruce and JMC, You both mention "Dynamic compensation" Where do you get the code from? I am told mastercam will not do it. When I asked the boys at DMG and showed them some of my more complicatied 5 axis parts they said that it had to programmed in a cam system that supports Dynamic Comp but they could not tell me one that does. If I under stand it right for ever G1, G2 or G3 command there is a I,J,K to imply cutting/comp direction. I have asked questions about this on this forum before with no response. I don't work with DMU's any more. But this has aways bugged me.

+1 on the Data Flute. To bad you don't have 20k spindle.

Phil, I gave hard copies to Henry and Wendy Gorn, AKA Fred