Isn't "nesting" what happens when a guy jumps into cold water??? (Oh, sorry... guess that wasn't it) -Rekd [ 11-27-2001: Message edited by: Rekd ]

Welp, I've had my probs with all american cars, and although this may cause most of you to hate me, I have YET to see ANY american car that lasts as long as, or is as trouble free as Toyota! Note that this is from my OWN experience. I've owned Fords, (Never will again), I've owned Chevy's and GMC's, (Will again), and I've owned Toyotas, (Will again) Yes, it's Japanese, but yes, they're also made in the USA. There's a plant just north of Norco, CA if you don't believe me -Rekd

haas = good machine for the money.. been running them for years

LOLOLOLOL!!! Funny stuff, webbie! I can't help but wonder if multass is alone in this world. I can't imagine anyone actually being, you know... 'friends' with him, (if he acts this way face to face i pitty him..) Seems like a person just starved for attention, and the best way to deal with that is to starve him. This will be my last post on the subject of the '3rd person' postings of multass. (spelling?) [ 10-19-2001: Message edited by: Rekd ]

I would think we, (Americans) would all be thankful that we're living in part of a world that doesn't enforce rules like the Taliban, (Afgan leaders). Here's a sample of some of their laws.. ----------------- Prayer Failure to pray to Mecca five times a day -- a requirement of the Muslim religion -- is punishable by imprisonment. Women and driving Drivers are prohibited from giving rides to women. Violators are subject to imprisonment. Preventing idolatry Portraits -- paintings and photos -- are said to promote idolatry and must be destroyed under the law. Women and work Women are banned from working outside the home except in the health sector. In hospitals, women are separated from their male colleagues. Women and education The Taliban forbids the education of women until institutions segregating them from men are established. Informal education of women can be punishable by law. For men, at least a sixth-grade education is required. Entertainment Music, except for religious chants, is prohibited in shops, hotels and vehicles, and at weddings and parties. Kite flying is considered "useless" and an obstacle to education. Hobbies like keeping pigeons also are forbidden. Gambling Forbidden and punishable by at least a month in prison. Beards and barbers Men who trim or shave their beards -- considered a sign of Islamic piety -- are imprisoned until their beard grows out. Taliban religious police have been known to employ "the fist rule." A beard must be long enough to be held in a fist. Barbers are banned from giving "American-style" haircuts. Public bathing The Taliban shut public bathhouses for men and women, even though most Afghans lack running water. The Taliban says Islam forbids men and women to publicly display their bodies. ------------ Anyone living outside this kind of rule should drop to their knees right now and thank the God for allowing country's like the USA to prosper and provide democracy for the world. (Jailed for not growing a beard? Are you serious?!?!?!) There, cadcam, is that better? BTW, I think you missed the point here......... [ 09-16-2001: Message edited by: Rekd ]

[ 09-16-2001: Message edited by: Rekd ]

A few missed attempts by bin Laden: Target: Millennium celebrations in the Middle East and the United States When: Jan. 1-5, 2000 Plan: Carry out bombings at three locations in Jordan, as well as Los Angeles International Airport, and Aden, Yemen, killing hundreds of Americans, including U.S. sailors on board the USS The Sullivans. Outcome: Jordan plot foiled with arrests of 12 accused bombers in Jordan in early December 1999; Los Angeles plot foiled with arrest of two accused bombers in Port Angeles, Wash., and Brooklyn, N.Y., in late December 1999; attack on USS The Sullivans ends with bomb-laden boat sinking in Aden Harbor. Target: U.S. facilities in London When: January 1999 Plan: Several attacks on U.S. locations in the British capital. Outcome: Alleged Bin Ladin associates arrested in Ecuador, Uruguay and France in the months preceding the planned attacks. Target: U.S. embassies in Europe, Asia, Africa When: Aug. 7, 1998 Plan: Carry out bombings at U.S. embassies in Kampala, Uganda; Tirana, Albania; Dar Es Salaam, Tanzania; and Nairobi, Kenya, killing U.S. diplomats. Outcome: Twelve Americans and 212 Africans killed in Tanzania and Kenya. Plots foiled in Uganda and Albania, with arrests made in both countries. Target: President Clinton, in the Philippines When: November 1996 Plan: Assassinate the U.S. leader during the APEC summit in Subic Bay. Outcome: Plot foiled after documents discovered in abandoned computer showing that terrorists had tracked Clinton's November 1994 visit to Manila, detailing his security arrangements. Target: Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, in Ethiopia When: June 1995 Plan: Assassinate the president during a state visit to Ethiopia. Outcome: Attempt fails despite attack on Mubarak's motorcade in Addis Ababa, the capital. Security personnel killed. Target: Pope John Paul II, in the Philippines When: January 1995 Plan: Assassinate the pontiff as he drove through Manila, the capital, to celebrate Mass for a million people. Outcome: Plot uncovered when Manila bomb factory catches fire. Plan would have failed since crowds forced the pope to fly to site of the Mass in a helicopter rather than ride through the streets. Target: Planes over the Pacific When: January 1995 Plan: Plant bombs on 11 U.S. airliners, all timed to go off during a 48-hour period as the planes fly over the open Pacific. Outcome: Plot uncovered when Manila bomb factory catches fire. One Japanese businessman killed during test of bomb on Philippine Airline flight in December 1994. Target: World Trade Center, New York City When: February 1993 Plan: Cause the north tower of the World Trade Center complex to collapse into the south tower, a plan which - according to Bin Laden's calculations - might have killed as many as 250,000 people. Outcome: Explosion limited to north tower, killing six but injuring 1,500. He's not quite the brilliant mind some seem to think he is..

Russia was already in financial ruin when they entered that war. All it did was bring about their demise sooner than if they had not spent their resources on warcraft. You should also be aware that warcraft has almost always bolstered the American economy. In fact, that is what brought us out of the depression in the 40's. It's sad to think about it now.. but I used to jokingly say that we needed to go to war in order to bring the economy back up. Be careful what you wish for, you may get it. I believe that this war may cost us many more lives than have already been lost on 9-11. I also believe that if we do nothing, it will only continue. I, like millions of other Americans, would gladly give my life in order to give my family, friends and countrymen their freedom and security. It has to be stopped.

bryan, I'm not going to justify your ravings by replying to all the mis-informed things you say. But I will say this... This is not only my feeling, but the feelings of many others I have listened to, talked to and read from and heard on TV/Radio, INCLUDING the US Government. Are you not mad? Do you not think we can do something about this? Are you ready to just lay down and die? If so you are weak. Throughout history, when someone attacked someone else, it was know who was attacking and who was being attacked. Now we face ill-trained cowards that will stop at nothing to try to prove their idiocies, no matter if it means suicide. We can play that way as well. How pathetic you must be to think we can just sit idly by and let this happen, and even more so to believe, according to what I'm reading from your post, that what they did was just and honorable. It was not. It was cowardly, plain and simple. God have mercy on the stupid souls that did this, becuase the USA will not show any mercy. There will be more to this than you can imagine. Watch and see.

This is an article from a Canadian newspaper, is worth sharing. America: The Good Neighbor. Widespread but only partial news coverage was given recently to a remarkable editorial broadcast from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian television commentator. What follows is the full text of his trenchant remarks as printed in the Congressional Record: "This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States. When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it. When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped. The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent, warmongering Americans. I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the International lines except Russia fly American Planes? Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon - not once, but several times - and safely home again. You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everybody to look at . Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from Ma and Pa at home to spend here. When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them a old caboose. Both are still broke. I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake. Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of those." Stand proud, America! Also my heart goes out to all Americans affected by this evil....

Subject: The Price of Pansyhood....... (Original posting is below...) 1) We lost? Losing requires us to give up or be beaten into submsision. We have done neither. We were attacked, yes. By cowards. Think of what this country could do if we wanted to be like that... 2) We CAN stop it from happening. But it's going to cost us, (Americans) our freedom to move about the country as we choose. We will have locked borders and millitant police to ensure it. 3) I don't remeber EVER reading anything in American history that shows us, (Americans) being ruthless without warning or provocation. We did not attack Japan, they attacked us. And the only political presure we use is to try to give, (encourage), others the choice to live in a democracy. These people did this to us without warning, and without us knowing who did it. It's like robbery: If your house is robbed, chances are you won't know who did it. Is that not cowardace or terrorism? 4) Beautifully conceived and executed? That second plane almost missed WTC. See the abrupt turn towars the end? We, (Americans) have technology to hit any single office ANYWHERE on those buildings! And we wouldn't have lost any american lives... We could very easily send stuff from here to anywhere in the world, virtually un-detected. If we ever wanted to be sneaky and cowardice, we could.. effectively! ------- i'll skip to my favorites. I'm getting tired of writing already.. ------- 6) The attack WAS a tragedy. Don't you think? 7) I see a glimps of a point here. We could clean out any country. We don't because we won't hurt inocents. We, (americans) will not shoot blindly into a crowd to kill our foes. But they, (place terrorist group here) will gladly shoot openly into a croud to try to kill us. 8) Useless sense of having nuclear weapons? Um, we've fought EVERY war since WWII with conventional weopons. And the reason the US lost in Vietnam is because it was not clasified as a war. It was more like a police action. We, (America) did not put all out effort into it. Fight a ground war? We don't need to fight war that way anymore. Ground crews will only be needed to do cleanup... Remeber those neat little rockets we made that could hit targets as small as an air shaft in Iraq? You should read more. 9) Who cares how far away we are. We can hit them from here.. (Reference sectoins 4 and 8 above.) 11) We are militarily weak? Hardly. That's why these faceless (place cowardly terrorist group here) people don't want us, (americans) to know who they are. They'll be obliterated. Openly, Justly and Swiftly. 12) We, (America) are not the bully's on the block. We are the Remote Dentist. We're gonna knock out the tooth without pain killer and without touching the mouth. No need to just 'smash it in the mouth' (Reference sections 4, 7 & 8 above.) If whoever wrote what's below is an american, I pity you. Your feelings on life, freedom and inocense must haunt you. This, (the USA) is STILL a free country. (Original Posting follows...) Subject: The Price of Pansyhood....... A few unorganized thoughts regarding the events in New York 1) We lost. Our moral posturing about our degradation is merely embarrassing. We have been made fools of, expertly and calculatedly, in the greatest military defeat the country has suffered since we fled from Viet Nam. The Moslem world is laughing and dancing in the streets. The rest of the earth, while often sympathetic, sees us as the weak and helpless nation that we are. The casualty figures aren't in, but 10,000 dead seems reasonable, and we wring our hands and speak of grief therapy. We lost.(2) We cannot stop it from happening again. Thousands of aircraft constantly use O'Hare, a few minutes flying time from the Sears Tower. (3) Our politicians and talking heads speak of "a cowardly act of terrorism." It was neither cowardly nor, I think, terrorism. Hijacking an aircraft and driving it into a building isn't cowardly. Would you do it? It requires great courage and dedication -- which our enemies have, and we do not. One may mince words, but to me the attack looked like an act of war. Not having bombing craft of their own, they used ours. When we bombed Hanoi and Hamburg, was that terrorism?(4) The attack was beautifully conceived and executed. These guys are good. They were clearly looking to inflict the maximum humiliation on the United States, in the most visible way possible, and they did. The sight of those two towers collapsing will leave nobody's mind. If we do nothing of importance in return, and it is my guess that we won't, the entire earth will see that we are a nation of epicenes. Silly cruise-missile attacks on Afghanistan will just heighten the indignity.(5) In watching the coverage, I was struck by the tone of passive acquiescence. Not once, in hours of listening, did I hear anyone express anger. No one said, coldly but in deadly seriousness, "People are going to die for this, a whole lot of people." There was talk of tracking down bin Laden and bringing him to justice. "Terrorism experts" spoke of months of investigation to find who was responsible, which means we will do nothing. Blonde bimbos babbled of coping strategies and counseling and how our children needed support. There was no talk of retaliation.(6) The Israelis, when hit, hit back. They hit back hard. But Israel is run by men. We are run by women. Perhaps two-thirds of the newscasters were blonde drones who spoke of the attack over and over as a tragedy, as though it had been an unusually bad storm -- unfortunate, but inevitable, and now we must get on with our lives. The experts and politicians, nominally male, were effeminate and soft little things. When a feminized society runs up against male enemies -- and bin Laden, whatever else he is, is a man -- it loses. We have.(7) We haven't conceded that the Moslem world is our enemy, nor that we are at war. We see each defeat and humiliation in isolation, as a unique incident unrelated to anything else. The 241 Marines killed by the truck bomb in Beirut, the extended humiliation of the hostages taken by Iran, the war with Iraq, the bombing of the Cole, the destruction of the embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, the devastation of the Starke, the Saudi barracks, the dropping of airliner after airliner -- these we see as anecdotes, like pileups of cars on a snowy road. They see these things as war.We face an enemy more intelligent than we are.(8) We think we are a superpower. Actually we are not, except in the useless sense of having nuclear weapons. We could win an air war with almost anyone, yes, or a naval war in mid-Pacific. Few Americans realize how small our forces are today, how demoralized and weakened by social experimentation. If we had to fight a ground war in terrain with cover, a war in which we would take casualties, we would lose. (9) I have heard some grrr-woofwoofery about how we should invade Afghanistan and teach those ragheads a lesson. Has anyone noticed where Afghanistan is? How would we get there? Across Pakistan, a Moslem country? Or through India? Do we suppose Iran would give us overflight rights to bomb another Moslem country? Or will our supply lines go across Russia through Turkmenistan? Do we imagine that we have the airlift or sealift? What effect do we think bombing might have on Afghanistan, a country that is essentially rubble to begin with? We backed out of Somalia, a Moslem country, when a couple of GIs got killed and dragged through the streets on TV. Afghans are not pansies. They whipped the Russians. Our sensitive and socially-conscious troops would curl up in balls.(10) To win against a more powerful enemy, one forces him to fight a kind of war for which he isn't prepared. Iraq lost the Gulf War because it fought exactly the kind of war in which American forces are unbeatable: Hussein played to his weaknesses and our strengths. The Vietnamese did the opposite. They defeated us by fighting a guerrilla war that didn't give us anything to hit. They understood us. We didn't understand them. The Moslem world is doing the same thing. Because their troops, or terrorists as we call them, are not sponsored by a country, we don't know who to hit. Note that Yasser Arafat, bin Laden, and the Taliban are all denying any part in the destruction of New York. At best, we might, with our creaky intelligence apparatus, find Laden and kill him. It's not worth doing: Not only would he have defeated America as nobody ever has, but he would then be a martyr. Face it: The Arabs are smarter than we are.(11) We are militarily weak because we have done what we usually do: If no enemy is immediately in sight, we cut our forces to the bone, stop most R&D, and focus chiefly on sensitivity training about homosexuals. When we need a military, we don't have one. Then we are inutterably surprised.(12) The only way we could save any dignity and respect in the world be to hit back so hard as to make teeth rattle around the world. A good approach would be to have NSA fabricate intercepts proving that Libya was responsible, mobilize nationally, invade, and make Libya permanently a US colony. Most Arab countries are militarily helpless, and that is the only kind our forces could defeat. Doing this, doing anything other than whimpering, would require that ancient military virtue known as "balls." Does Katie Couric have them?

Cadcam has a great point... Anybody can make a program using a cam system. But will that program run right the first time? If a machinist is programming it, chances are better. When I first got into machining, the programmer we had could make that machine do wonders. But almost EVERY single program had to be edited; tools switched, feeds/speeds/depth of cut, all needed work before running the part. And he never seemed to get the idea about why we were changing his programs all the time. Do yourself, your employer, AND your operator a favor: If you're gonna learn to program, you gotta learn how to machine FIRST!

Damn, Luther. Now I got a headache! Did you have to be so thorough?

Lol, sector zero...? This the virus from Deep Space Nine or what? laf

Bob hit the nail on the head. Welcome to the wonderful world of Micro$oft. With it's bloatware and raging kernal, Micro$oft needs to be let out to pee once in a while. (i.e. shut it down.) The OS is inherently prone to crash if you don't. Memory leaks are the main reason this sort of thing happens. If you haven't shut your machine down for a few days, you will likely start seeing these things more frequently. The memory leaks come from many sources, initially the OS. Secondly the programmers that write Micro$oft compatable software. (Many do not trap errors like they should, or re-dim an array when done with it to free memory). Even the Mirco$oft bloatware like Office is poorly over-coded. I, like the gold miners of the old west, shut my computer down every week whether it needs it or not. (Usually end up doing a restart once or twice during the week if it starts acting up too.) [ 09-01-2001: Message edited by: Rekd ]

Speeds will do it without boring, redrilling etc. Run the RPM down as much as 75% to 80% LESS than normal milling for that diameter of cutter while in the corners. The squeel you get, which in turn creates chatter marks, is because the endmill is not working hard enough. It has time to vibrate from one side to the other, bouncing if you will. Increase the chip load drastically and it should clean up nicely. I'm guessing, but feed about 10-15 ipm and speed about 1000 or less. Maybe as low as 500. Use the RPM override to adjust during the cuts, and you'll find the right one. Then change the program so you don't have to override it manually. This method works for most cutters down to .1875 diameter or so.

I was being sarcastic about the 6 IPM on the Fadal. You can actually go 2 or 3 times faster than that when doing sharp angles, close tolerances, fine surfaces and the likes! I've surfaced intricate parts with tight tolerance/surface finish call-outs and sharp angles on Fadal, Haas, Milltronics, Boston Digital and a retro-fit Bridgeport. The only machine the Fadal beat was, you guessed it, the Bridgeport! I hate to say it, but even the Milltronics beat it!! And we all know how I feel about mIllcronics.. Besides, attaining accuracy of .0002 with quality surface finish on ANY of the 'low cost' machines is next to impossible at high feeds. At least the Haas can adjust the programmed feeds at corners using G187 E.0002. (E.0002 being the tolerance you want the machine to try to hold. Last I heard, Fadal didn't do anything like that. The only machine I've run, (of the ones listed above), that's capable of running into the hundreds of IPM for surfacing these kinds of parts is the Boston Digital. And it slows down to as much as 50 to 75 IPM to do it! (That's what a 1/4 million dollar machine will do for you though.) The Fadal will overshoot a corner, and then gouge the next surface trying to recover! (That is, if it doesn't alarm from servo lag..) BTW, If your Hurco is freaking out on those arcs, you might want to check for some kind of Arc Assist parameter. The Milltronics did the same thing, and on some G18/G19 arcs would think you wanted it to go the 'other way' and change it for you!! Call your Hurco rep, they may have a fix for it. BTW Multax, this post is based on my own personal experience. It's not my opinion, it's what I've learned hands on in the real world, making real parts for real customers. And I really enjoyed reading your philosiphy. That thought applies to just about everything in life. Kudos to you! -Rekd [ 08-29-2001: Message edited by: Rekd ]

Not to beat a dead horse, but as I said, the Fadal is probably one of the last CNC's you'd want to buy for surfacing, unless you don't mind running at 6.75 IPM...

How fast will your machine go???

As long as we're on the subject of Gibbs... I'll give my 2 cents. I learned on Virtual Gibbs. Great package to learn on if you've never done it. Then I moved to GibbsNC, (backstep?). More powerful, but clunky. Then on to Mastercam and WOW, so THIS is what CAM is all about eh? After 6 or 7 years of CAM, I still prefer Mastercam over GibbsNC, Virtual Gibbs, Surfcam, Geopath, EZMill, BobCAD and a few others I've used. Once again; Kudos to the boys at CNC Software!

OMG, Multax!!! Get a life! Don't you have work to do?!?!?!SHADDUP ALREADY!!! We're all getting really tired of your potty mouth and bashing everything everyone says. Poor guy probably has absolutely NO friends, male or particularly female. And the only satisfaction he gets outside his palm is to jump out of his toilet and up on the soap box. You are SOOOOO annoying. Be a good turd and flush, will you? (Webby, you can delete this if you want, but I'm sure it's not far from the truth. And I doubt I'm the only one that feels this way. This forum is for helping others and, yes, stating opinions, but toilet man here is just a blubbering idiot that is doing absolutely NO good here, short of entertainment value. Which is getting old.) Mayhaps we should take a vote on banning Multmouth from the forum, since we can't put him on ignore... [ 08-06-2001: Message edited by: Rekd ]

James, LOLOLOLOL. Very nicely stated. And not to beat a dead horse(s xxxx), but what's with the 3rd person references from Multax. Rekd doesn't talk like that.

Is it possible to run an executable file from a post? And if so, can you pass variables to it? Like path and file name?

I also noticed, in the personal profiles page for forum users, an "Add to your ignore list" link, but it doesn't work for general posts. Too bad.

I agree, Gcode. It appears that Multax just likes to hear himself talk. He just feels he HAS to take apart every post made on this subject and point out all the errors and/or misconceptions. Had I known he was going to write a short novel on this subjec/thread, I wouldn't have gotten him started. But now it would seem he has taken a large step up from his soapbox and is boasting just to hear himslef boast. Mayhaps he'll soon realize that he's not teaching a class here. And this is NOT a multi-million dollar government project that has to be completely researched beforehand. We're just trying to give, I'll say it again... OPINIONS, based on which machine we THINK is best. Geez So unless Multax wants to fund me to purchase several of the machines we're discussing so I can PROVE they're better or worse, I wish he'd just, um... Oh, never mind. On a different note.. I saw a bumper sticker once that said something to the effect of: Bill Clinton; Like a peice of poo that just won't flush. Feel free to replace Bill Clinton with any name you feel may apply... Sorry if this post is offensive, webby, but I've had to pull out my dictionary twice now. It's really getting annoying reading the nonsensical ravings of this obviously under-worked mind. *sigh*